Using EBOO, Chelation and Stellate Ganglion Blockade to Address Chronic Fatigue with Kyle Hulbert

Using EBOO, Chelation and Stellate Ganglion Blockade to Address Chronic Fatigue with Kyle Hulbert

00:03

Hey everybody, welcome back to the EnergyMD Podcast where we help you resolve your Long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome naturally so that you can get back to living your best life. I'm Evan Hirsch. So really excited today because, as you know, near and dear to my heart is the Toxic 5, which I talk about quite a lot. This is a combination of heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, and nervous system dysfunction that I find is at the real root cause of all people's health issues.

00:29

And we're going to be talking with Kyle Hulbert today, and he has a very similar view, and let's learn a little bit about him. So Kyle is the CEO and founder of the Longevity Centers of America. He was once the patient it was designed for. He co-founded it with Dr. Kosubewski, and the practice exists to deliver data-driven regenerative care to the millions

00:54

failed by conventional medicine, built on the principles of accessibility and affordability. Kyle brings rare depth to his work, a researcher, a doctoral candidate, and a credentialed wellness expert who has walked the path himself. He co-hosts the weekly podcast Longevity Unlocked with Dr. Kosubewski, where cutting-edge science on detoxification, hormonal health, and regenerative medicine gets translated into conversations that actually move the needle. Kyle, thanks so much for joining me today.

01:24

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to have a great discussion. Yeah. So you have your own story. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but if you can give us kind of the Cliff Notes version and kind of like how you got here, I'd appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. So if anybody's ever heard me on a podcast before, you've probably heard this story. I try to keep it fresh, but I appreciate the Cliff Notes approach. So basically, the moral of the story is I was living a clean life.

01:52

I was in college. I didn't drink, I didn't party, I didn't do drugs. I ate clean food. I worked out. I was an athlete. I drank filtered water, the whole nine yards. And I just was getting sicker and sicker while all my other friends were doing way better than me, and they did drink and party and do all the things. And I was like, what is going on? I'm falling asleep in class. My mental health started to decline, and like pretty bad depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts,

02:23

joint pain, gut problems, allergies, literally everything popped up. And I was like, well, there's something wrong with me. So I went to six or seven conventional doctors, including one of the best doctors in my city. And half of them said they couldn't find anything. Half of them said I was making it up. Hypochondriac. And I was like, I promise you I'm not making it up. I'm like, I eat clean, I sleep well, I work out.

02:52

I'm young and I feel like garbage. This is not me making it up. It's not move more, eat less. So that kind of led me down the rabbit hole. From there, I started reading books from wellness influencers, listening to podcasts. This was actually before I got my doctorate degree, so I didn't know how to read research at the time. But I dove in, and it started all with Dave Asprey,

03:23

who goes on and on in a lot of his podcasts about getting testosterone checked. And I was like, you know what, let's go do it. I Googled "integrative medicine doctor near me," went to the first one that popped up, called him and was like, hey, do you test testosterone levels? And they were like, sure. I said, okay, I want to do that. Went there, got the test, 159 total testosterone at 21. Normal is 600 for those listening. Yeah.

03:52

Yeah. Normal is probably 600 as the floor for a 21-year-old. It probably should be closer to a thousand, especially a 21-year-old living a clean life and working out and all that should be around a thousand. And from there, he put me on HRT. It was HCG, and my mental health symptoms basically went away in a week. And I was like, there's something to this. This is not just voodoo. Like, this worked.

04:22

So I still had all these other symptoms, so I continued down the rabbit hole. And at that point I got into my doctorate degree and started doing a bunch of research and kind of getting into the communities surrounding integrative medicine and biohacking. Ended up at a conference that Dave Asprey put on and found a concierge medicine doctor who took me from hormone replacement therapy to hormone optimization, which made me feel quite a bit better, but it still wasn't fixing things.

04:50

And then he recommended me to another doctor down in South Florida who diagnosed me with mercury poisoning, chronic mercury poisoning. Heavy metals. That doctor then sent me to another doctor in his practice who is now a business partner, Dr. K, Dr. Benjamin Kosubowski. And he was the one that treated me and got me better. So he pulled out the mercury, and from there we developed a great friendship and I was his guinea pig, reluctantly.

05:20

He allowed me to trial and error the things that he knew wouldn't hurt me, because he likes his license. And we started kind of working on it. He developed protocols with a lot of the research that I did and then trial and error on the things that I did. And then from there, I told him, listen, dude, I do business. So if you ever want to open a practice, you just give me a call. One day he made that call. I said, let's go.

05:49

Let's do it. So for me, really, the Cliff Notes version of it is integrative medicine saved my life. It was something that, I would say, even most functional medicine experts don't really approach heavy metals very well. And most of them don't even know about the complexity and the intricacies of them with certain chelators and the preference for certain metals and stuff like that.

06:17

And so finding my business partner and him saving my life quite literally, because I was at a point where I was thinking about ending it. Quite literally saving my life made me want to bring this to more people. Like, let's blow it up. Let's make this mainstream. The biggest barrier to that was affordability. And we can get into that. Yeah, I'm excited to chat about that.

06:45

Thank you for sharing your story with us. And so then you established the Longevity Centers of America, right? And now you've got a couple of them running. Yep, we've got three locations now, two in West Palm Beach, one in Greenville, South Carolina. And we have another one slated for later this year in Orlando. Awesome. And so just kind of like big picture in terms of the therapies that you guys use, it looks like you're using eBoo,

07:13

or extracorporeal blood ozone. You're doing IV and infusion therapies like NAD, ozone, high-dose vitamin C, chelation, regenerative medicine like PRP, peptides, laser therapy, VSELs. What's VSELs? Very small embryonic-like stem cells. Oh, cool. So cool. Stem cells. Very cool new technology. And then you're doing hormone and peptide optimization, and then you're also doing stellate ganglion block

07:41

and Procaine IVs for nervous system reset. Yep. There is not much that we don't do. If it exists, the website covers maybe half of what we do. If it exists in integrative medicine, chances are we do it. Very cool. And I wanted to put that out here initially just so that people who are interested in these therapies know that it's coming. We're going to be talking about those. Sorry, I cut you off. Go ahead. No, you're good. The one thing that we do not do is a lot of telemedicine. We do almost nothing remotely. We're old school,

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brick and mortar. You've got to come see us. And the question is, how old school are you? Do you have paper charts? No, oh no, no, I'm not that old school. I couldn't do that. Couldn't do that. We almost had to start that way, actually, because we launched so fast the EMR wasn't ready. And it actually launched the night before we opened with our first patient, but we were ready to do paper charts. That's funny.

08:36

Yeah, I went with my dad to a doctor's appointment the other day and they had paper charts, and I was like, whoa. They were like scanning them in. It's like one doctor just doesn't want to make the change, you know, sort of thing. That's rough. Well, great. So let's kind of go through, for people who are really curious about these therapies, let's kind of take them through the process. So they're listening to this, they're like, hey, this is really interesting. They reach out to the website, they contact you guys, they decide they're going to kind of like fly out.

09:04

What does that process look like? Can you take us through it? I mean, you can do one step at a time, however you kind of want to structure things. And then I can ask you some questions about each step. Yeah. So our whole basis is affordability. And the reason I hit on this before we go into the process is because it's actually structured around affordability. One of the main things that Dr. K told me when he wanted to create a practice was, I'm losing patients because they can't afford the treatments. And he said, I need you to fix that. I was like,

09:34

okay, I'll go fix it somehow. So there was no real secret sauce. We did two things. I have a background in construction and purchasing, so I mean, I source things. Most clinics source things from a handful of vendors. We have tons. I think we have north of a hundred. And we source for the highest quality and the best price. So we'll source from across the nation. We'll find the highest-quality ingredient. Here are the seven suppliers that have it. And we're going to go with the best price.

10:03

We do that with every single thing that we have, everything that goes into an IV, every part of the IV tubing, every catheter, everything. And that allows us to control our pricing. The other part is no secret sauce. It's just margin. We literally charge less. We just charge less profit. And that allows us to see more people. And so the reason I tell you that is our process starts with an initial consult. So you come in.

10:32

You do an initial consult just like about any other doctor in the world probably has a similar process. And the way we approach this is that consult is not necessarily for the patient, right? It's for the clinician, because you're getting the subjective, you're getting the history, and you're covering your tail with all the consent forms and stuff you've got to get signed. So it's really a fact-finding mission, but the patient doesn't actually get anything of value in that consult.

11:02

And so what we did is for that consult, it's $175. It applies to your first service, so technically you don't pay for that consult. And so during that consult, we focus on getting their subjective. What are their symptoms? What are their goals? What's their history, medications, surgeries, allergies, all of those things. So we build out an entire robust list of items and things they'd like to improve, or things, problems they have. And that's our subjective kind of groundwork.

11:33

From there, our next step is we send them for what we call a longevity panel, which is fairly comprehensive blood work. It's like 156 biomarkers. It's like the Function Health test, but with more. And then they come back for their lab review, is what we call it. During that process, before they get to the lab review, our clinicians will sit down, look at the subjective, look at the lab data,

12:02

and then compare them, right? And then find where they think the root cause might be. And with that comprehensive lab data, sometimes you don't need more than the labs, right? If your lipids are off, sometimes you're just eating like trash. And if you know, based on the initial consult, that they have a bad diet and their lipids are off, okay, we know what to do. But sometimes it's indicative that we need to look further.

12:31

So in that lab review, $99. Again, this is a patient plan. We didn't want to charge them for something that isn't treatment, so we did the lowest price we possibly could. We lay out one of two paths. If we have enough to work on with their subjective and their lab work, we will send them into treatment. We call it the longevity roadmap. We'll give them a step-by-step process on what they need to do to get to their goals and alleviate their symptoms.

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If the clinician needs further testing, which is often the case, we will then, based on the subjective and the lab data, recommend specialty testing. Now this might be Lyme, this might be heavy metals, this might be a GI map. It could be a lot of different things, but we usually do them one or two at a time because we do not want the patient to have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on testing just for the clinician to be in this really cushy spot where they checked everything

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and they don't have to work really hard because they have everything. So we try to make it affordable, and nine times out of ten we nail it on the first couple of tests based on our learning and how we teach and our methodology. And so from there, they usually end up with one of somewhat similar Toxic 5. We see a lot of mold. We see a lot of Epstein-Barr virus reactivation. We see a lot of Lyme. We see a lot of heavy metals.

13:58

Random toxins, some stuff like glyphosate, and then a few other things here and there. But usually it's some combination thereof. And then they proceed to treatment. Nice. And so then how do you decide what treatment is based off of that? Yeah, we have, Dr. K has developed protocols for each individual case. If, say, if there's a Lyme case,

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we have a structured protocol. It's not a one-size-fits-all. It's very if-then, right? If they have this, then this. And if they have this, then this. And so a Lyme protocol might be four weeks of treatment for someone. And for a different person, it might be six months, depending on their toxic burden, their interaction with their other viral infections, or whatever might be going on.

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So based on our protocols, which we tailor based on the science, the research, and then the results, and we're constantly updating, that's how their treatment plans are built. Nice. And so then I guess, what would be, I mean, everybody's going to be different, but you're obviously looking at a lot of different causes. Do you have a sense about the average number of causes that somebody has when they come to see you?

15:26

Ooh, that's a good question. I like that. In my experience, there are two different cases. We see medium to low causes across a wide variety of categories resulting in this massive cumulative toxicity. Or we see nothing in almost everything, and then one thing is sky high. Right? So like, that was my case. I didn't have a lot of toxicities.

15:56

I had a lot of mercury. So that was it. Just had a lot of mercury. And low testosterone. Yeah, and low testosterone, which was probably mercury-driven. Mercury likes to target, especially with early exposure going through adolescence, the hormonal system, the pituitary, the whole nine yards. Yeah, so it's usually one of those two.

16:25

It's actually very rare that we get someone who has high concentrations of multiple things. That's not super common, which is kind of surprising to me, but that's just kind of what we see. Gotcha. And what was your mercury toxicity from? Where was your exposure? I think it was death by a thousand cuts. So my mom had amalgams, so I got some transferred in the womb. So I had some pre-birth.

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I was born during a certain period of time in which certain chemicals were injected into certain babies that may or may not have contained mercury. Let's put it that way. I got all of them. And then I grew up in Florida, so seafood was a mainstay for me. And then when I got into high school, I was kind of like a chubby middle schooler and I didn't want to be a chubby high schooler because I'd been bullied enough.

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So I was like, lean protein. I got into working out and so I just started hammering tuna, like cans of tuna. Just mustard on top. Doesn't get leaner protein than that. And I just ate copious amounts of tuna. So I think that all accumulated and pushed me over the edge. My undergrad years is when it started. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing all that. I think that that's something that I see often as well. We're kind of like, sometimes there's like a really big insult.

17:54

But for the people that I see, like with Long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome, they always have all of the Toxic 5, the heavy metals, the chemicals, the molds, the infections, the nervous system dysfunction. The question is always how much of each do they have? Right. And they all end up feeding off of them enough where the mitochondria gets damaged and they end up with the exhaustion and the post-exertional malaise and the brain fog and the body pain and the sleep issues, et cetera. And I think it's really important for people who are listening to this to remember it's never really just one thing. There's

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this combination. Like, you started off with testosterone, you got a little bit better. And oftentimes it is this sort of stacking as you find these different causes and you start addressing them. You just keep getting better and better. Yeah, well, and for me, a great example is that taking out the mercury did wonders for my health, but my testosterone never came back.

18:51

Right? I'm on TRT to this day and I will probably always be on TRT, one because I feel great, and two because if I stop, my body doesn't produce its own testosterone. It doesn't, it doesn't work. Fascinating. Yeah. So then let's talk a little bit about the testing. So, you know, I've struggled with some of these, the testing, just because all tests are imperfect. It's just kind of the reality of the situation. Urinary tests oftentimes are tests that measure excretion. They're not necessarily total body burden.

19:20

The serology tests where you're looking at infection, your immune system has to be functional in order to give you an accurate read. So how do you guys kind of manage all of those potential imperfections? Yeah, so we manage them one by one. So we have a different testing methodology for every single thing we look at. Sometimes a blood test is great. You want to know your lipids? Blood test. Yes. Excellent. Perfect. You want to know your testosterone levels? Amazing blood test.

19:50

Heavy metals is a great example where a blood test doesn't mean much. Heavy metals don't live in the bloodstream. They target tissues. They have target organs. And so if you pop positive on a blood test for heavy metal screening, you either have a recent exposure or such high levels in your tissues that it's overflowing. So for that one, we do a provocation test.

20:18

There are a lot of ways to test for heavy metals. Most of them are garbage. I think the only two that are extremely valid in my opinion are a urine provocation test, a pre-test IV with a chelating agent post-test, and a hair tissue mineral analysis read by an expert practitioner. I think, in my opinion, those are the two valid testing methods. The excretion-only urine test is not a great test because, I mean,

20:46

I can pee in a cup and send that sample off a hundred times. It's always zero for mercury for me. It's always been zero in every single pre-test I've ever done. And then the blood test again is just a screen. For mold, same type of deal. If it's a urine test, I mean, you might just be really good at excreting mold if it comes out high. If it's not there, it doesn't necessarily mean you don't have it. So we look at mycotoxin antibodies in the blood.

21:16

And yes, it's based off the immune system, but we do think it gives a very solid read on active mold concentrations in the body and mycotoxins. And then there are many more for all the other things. Nice. Good. So you're kind of combining tests to hedge your bets a little bit where you're using urine and blood potentially, and obviously the subjective and somebody's history gives you a better picture. Is that accurate? Yeah. Yeah. So Lyme is a great example. We do the Lyme screen

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on the blood work. It's not a very good test, but if it hits positive, you're almost always positive. It doesn't necessarily mean we're not going to do the specialty test for Lyme if the subjective is screaming Lyme. But even if it is negative, because that can false negative pretty easily. Right, agreed. And can you explain false negative just for people who don't know what that means? Yeah, a false negative is basically you do have Lyme,

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but because of the specific methodology on the test and how they built it, how they screened for it, the Western blot is the blood test. You can Google it and you can look up the details. But because of the way they built that specific test, due to the requirements of their technology at scale, at mass, at Quest and LabCorp, they can only detect certain cases. So if you have a false negative, it means you do have Lyme, but it says you don't.

22:44

Right. And Lyme could be in the tissues and it may not be in the blood. And so I really appreciate the fact that you talk about just doing a couple of these testing kits at a time, because people can really get overwhelmed. I remember when I used to do a lot of testing. I do a lot less testing now. But when I used to do a lot of testing, if you gave somebody more than two test kits, they probably wouldn't get any of them done. Yeah. It's something that,

23:13

one, patient adherence is big. Especially for telemedicine, because I think you do a lot of remote stuff. I mean, patient adherence has got to be a nightmare. And how to navigate that, how you word things to people, and how you get them to do it. It's a little easier for us because we're only brick and mortar. So you come in, and we're going to make you do the test right there. Like, heavy metals test, you're going to pee in the cup when you get here. And we're going to give you the IV,

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and you're going to leave with a jug, and we're going to explain it to you four times. You pee in this jug for the next six to eight hours. Right. So it's a little easier for us. But also the overwhelm factor is big. You don't even necessarily need to give a patient everything. So if you test everything, right, you're going to find things they didn't want to know. Right. And that might not matter to them. And the clinician knows that, but to them, they're freaked out about it.

24:11

Right? Like, I have parasites. Yes. Everyone has parasites. Can it be a bad thing? Yes, depending on the quantity and the type, but does everyone have some level of parasites? Yes. People freak out. I'm sure. Yeah. And so then how do you help, or how do you structure things for compliance? I mean, because obviously people are going home, they need to take supplements.

24:39

I mean, do you do supplements, or is it mainly all done with the therapies in-house? We almost do everything in-house. We do have some supporting supplements. There are some things that are just better to take at home. Like if you're doing DMPS chelation, you take your malignant, you know, it's the lookalike mineral to mercury, to replenish the body. If you're doing EDTA chelation, you're going to be on a trace mineral complex. We don't do a whole lot of that stuff.

25:08

I think it's 0.5% of our practice. It was one of the things that the way we approach things, call it old school, call it what you want, but it's brick and mortar. It's done for you by the practitioner. Yeah, well, that definitely helps with compliance. Yep. You come in, and then in terms of compliance for showing up, I mean, we have a team of patient relationship coordinators that call, check in, follow up,

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text, email, the whole nine yards. You feel very cared for and loved through the whole process. Nice. Yeah, that's really important. We do a lot of that too. So how long does it typically take? So somebody comes in with chronic fatigue, brain fog, body pain. Maybe they have ME/CFS or Long COVID or Lyme, or maybe they don't, but they are somewhere on that spectrum. How long does that typically take somebody to get better?

26:06

The way I usually answer this question is, I tell you if you are not out our door and feeling blessed in a year, we failed you.

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So our goal is to get every patient out the door in less than a year. You want to come back and do longevity and optimization? Be my guest. We'll have a great time. But in terms of your chronic issues and your symptoms, less than one year is the goal. Most of our patients are much closer to the less-than-six-month number. I'd probably say half are probably close to three months. A great example is we had a

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guy come in with essential tremors. Pretty bad. It was one of these. Not good. Very disrupting to his quality of life. I think he had appointments twice a week for about two months or so, and they were 90% resolved. Nice, you know? In and out. Other people, you know, if you come in and you've got lead and mercury and mold

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and parasites and Lyme, it's going to take some more time. Yeah. And so then we talked a little bit in the beginning about these different therapies. Can you kind of take us through some of these? We talked about eBoo. Can you talk about that? Or maybe talk about them and maybe we can rank them in terms of like most popular. Like, where do you guys generally go first with some of these therapies? Like that person with the essential tremor, what was he doing?

27:42

eBoo twice a week, was he doing more than that? Yep, so the most, or I don't really want to say popular because it's not like an IV bar where you order off a menu. It's like the most commonly prescribed treatments, I think, is how I would phrase it, and they are eBoo and chelation. Time and time again, eBoo and chelation. eBoo is because it hits a wide range

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of things, an extremely wide range. And chelation is just because of the prevalence of heavy metals. There are a lot of people who have a lot of heavy metals. So which one do you want to dive into first? Let's do eBoo. Okay. eBoo, extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation. People call it the oil change for your blood. So essentially it's ozone dialysis. Blood runs out of one arm, goes through a closed-loop sterile system, runs through a dialysis filter, across a gradient

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that's infused with ozone and oxygen, filters out all kinds of junk from your blood. The waste drains out into a bucket. The blood continues flowing, goes through a UV and LED lighting system, and then flows back into your other arm.

28:57

What does it do? It does a lot of things. The first and primary thing is it hyper-oxygenates your body. I've heard a lot of people say that lack of oxygen is a major driver of disease. I tend to agree. So if you add that massive boost of oxygen through your whole system, you get a major uplift. Secondly, ozone is a very powerful immune modulator. It can fire up your immune system in ways

29:27

to make it work optimally. It won't overfire, but it won't underfire either. So if you have an overactive immune system, it's not going to send you into immune storm. It kind of modulates. It's like a bioregulator. And then there's the actual physical detox piece where the inflammation and the waste is flowing out of the dialysis filter. We've measured that in multiple patients. There are studies showing what's in there. You're looking at little tiny concentrations of heavy metal,

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plus a lot of glyphosate, a lot of forever chemicals, molds, and stuff like that. And then the last part of it is ozone will directly kill and combat viruses and bacteria as well, along with the UV lighting system. So it does a lot of things. Right. Yeah. Very cool. And so it sounds like in terms of the waste in that, it sounds like chemicals, molds,

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have infections been found in there? I mean, I know that ozone and oxygen are antimicrobial, but do they end up in that filter or coming out? Possibly. So we have not tested that just because testing for viruses and dead viruses and bacteria in waste fluid, I don't even know what lab would take that.

30:53

It's kind of a logistical problem. I'd have to actually have the analysis machines in-house to be able to do that. We do know, and we've shown with pre and post blood work for Epstein-Barr and other things, that viral activation does decrease significantly. Awesome. But when I had my brick-and-mortar clinic, I did major auto hemotherapy. Basically you take the, for those who don't know, you take your blood, you mix it with ozone, and then you put it back into the body.

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So a little bit similar, but I found that a lot of people had die-off because of the antimicrobial effects of the ozone. So how do you manage that so that people don't have die-off so bad that it damages their hormones and mitochondria? You don't have to. People don't have it. The dialysis filter fixes that. Oh, interesting. So the reaction is different, because I've done every form of ozone there is. I've done minor auto hemotherapy, I've done major.

31:52

I've done multi-pass and I've done eBoo. Multi-pass is like one generation past major auto hemotherapy. Basically it goes up into a cup, ozones it, flows it back down. You do it multiple times. eBoo was the next generation. And so with eBoo, when I did my multi-pass treatments, the die-off was brutal. I mean, just brutal. I did eBoo.

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I've never reacted to an eBoo. Wow. And honestly, that's what we see in our patients. It's one of the least reactive treatments we have. The filter with the combination of the ozone, the oxygen, and the lighting system seems to knock out that die-off effect. Very cool. And so how much does it cost for an eBoo? The nationwide average is about $1,500. We charge $830. Very cool.

32:51

And so for somebody who has chronic fatigue syndrome and they have to do, would it be like twice a week? Once per week is the fastest you could do them. Okay. Yeah. And you usually do three. So three is kind of the magic number. Okay. And we have a discount, so it goes down to like $750 each if you do a three-pack. Okay, cool. And so why only once a week?

33:21

There is a small amount of red blood cells that you lose through the process in two different mechanisms. One is there's a very small amount that are split, basically just cut in half because of the ozone. And then we do return the patient's blood, but you do lose some in that system. And so if you do too many of them too close together, you're at risk for anemia, iron-deficiency anemia,

33:50

which a lot of people already have. Yeah. It's one of our preliminary screens. Yeah, I bet. And so why is three the magic number?

34:00

That is a great question. So the theory, and I don't think this has been studied in any published research that I can find, is that you do one, your blood's super clean, your body senses it, and it dumps from the tissues into the bloodstream as kind of an equalization effect, if you will. You do the second one, it cleans it up again. And by the third one, you've cleaned up most of that dumping mechanism.

34:27

The other part of that is just sheer exposure to ozone and oxygenation, getting enough of the blood circulated and filtered. So if you do three, it is about two thirds of your blood. If you do three, you've done more than your entire blood volume once. Cool. So it sounds like generally you're doing that once a week for three sessions. Yep. Okay. Gotcha. And some people choose to keep doing them because they feel great.

34:55

One of the things is we call it the eBoo glow. Your skin seems to glow and you look really good. I have post-eBoo sleep. I will go to bed that night and just wake up in the morning and be like, what happened? I don't even know where I am because I slept so hard. Nice. And so it seems like, for people, it sounds like if it's not going to be helpful in three tries, then it's probably not the right treatment for somebody. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

35:20

The one caveat with that is if you're going through something like chelation, which is a multiple-round deal with a lot of IVs, some people have to do, I did like 50. You probably want to throw in an eBoo because as you're doing chelation and you're disrupting the biofilms

35:49

that mold lives in, because of the structure of the heavy metals, pulling out the heavy metals, there's going to be some die-off happening during that process. You probably want to throw some eBoos in there to clean up the system as you go. It'll reduce the side effects of chelation as well. So before we get into other treatments, let's talk a little bit about price. So obviously you guys are doing it as inexpensively as possible, which is really amazing. These therapies are just naturally expensive.

36:17

So for somebody who goes through, who's got, let's say, chronic fatigue syndrome and Long COVID, and they go through, let's say, six months' worth, what is the expected price tag? That's really hard to put a number on because it's so different. I mean, for each person it could be vastly different. We don't recommend anything more than you need. I mean, we have optional add-on stuff that you can do if you want, longevity optimization, beautification.

36:46

But I mean, if you look at it like, you come in, you've got heavy metals, it's really the only thing you kind of have, maybe some glyphosate, maybe some other small toxins that eBoo can hit. You're probably looking at a three-pack of eBoo and 20 chelations. You're probably going to be around $6K. And that would take how long to get all those IVs? How often is chelation? You can do up to three times a week. We don't recommend that. We recommend twice a week. Okay, gotcha.

37:14

Okay. So if chelation is twice a week and you do a pack of 20, then that would take you 10 weeks. Yep. Okay. Gotcha. So you're looking at like three months, $6K. That's actually quite reasonable. It's yeah. I mean, our pricing is super aggressive. I mean, we actually, if you look at our overhead for consults and testing, we actually net lose money on every consult and every test that we do, quite a bit. It's like negative margin. Yeah.

37:45

Yeah, it sounds like it. And so then you have to make it up with the therapies, but it sounds like you're doing a nice job trying to keep those as low as possible too. Yeah. And we do it at just volume, really. That's the only missing link here. We just see a lot of people. We have three eBoo machines. We can run 15 eBoos a day. There you go. Nice. Wonderful. So let's talk about some of the other therapies that you offer.

38:14

Where do you want to go from there? We can go wherever, honestly. Let's talk about the stellate ganglion block, because I know a lot of people who've got Long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome are looking at that. Yeah. So stellate ganglion block, FDA approved for chronic pain. Is that what we use it for now? As per usual. Right. And so really what drove this treatment into

38:43

I wouldn't even say the limelight because there's not many people doing it, but into existence and popularity, was the veteran community who was suffering from PTSD. And this treatment was shown to be a game changer for them. The unfortunate part is if you want to book one at the VA clinic, you're on a crazy waitlist. And then you often need a few of them in a row, like about a month apart, but the waitlist resets and then

39:12

you're way too many months past when you need the next one. So outside the VA system, there's not a whole lot of doctors that offer this. I'm guessing maybe 20 in the US. There's a lot of people that offer a knockoff version. It's essentially an insulin syringe that they use as opposed to the full needle. And it's like neural therapy. It's not an actual nerve block.

39:40

So there's not many people that offer it. Most people offer it for about $2,700 for both sides. We offer it for $850. And essentially what it is is a long needle, about two to two and a half inches. It goes right in your neck under ultrasound guidance. It's filled with procaine and it numbs all around that stellate ganglion nerve cluster. And it basically puts a hard brake on the fight-or-flight system. It's like a hard reset.

40:10

You'll get a little Horner syndrome, so your eye will droop a little bit. You'll be fine the next day. And then basically you come back the next day and you do the other side. And we have seen just life-changing results with it. We had one patient that was like, hey, I cold-turkey stopped all of my anxiety meds. And we were like, what? Don't, work with your psychiatrist and taper please. And she was like, no, I'm good. And we were like, oh my word.

40:40

But she got off all her medications. I mean, I wish she would have tapered, but. Nice. Yeah. We use the biggest nerve-stimulating device and we use nervous system retraining practices, but this is kind of like the bigger gun for really getting in there and blocking that fight or flight. And I would not start here. This is not where you start.

41:07

You don't just start with a stellate ganglion block. You start with what you do. Maybe go to Procaine IVs. Then you go to the stellate ganglion block. So let's talk about the Procaine IVs. How do those work? Yeah, so it's a very similar process. It's actually the same thing that is in the stellate ganglion block syringe. It's a numbing agent. Procaine is kind of similar to Novocaine, like when you go to the dentist. How it works, it's a calcium channel blocker.

41:36

So it does the same type of deal. It puts the brakes on the fight-or-flight system. But it's administered IV. It takes about an hour. You get a little high during it. Kind of feel warm, a little bit out of it. And it is, I'd say it's like the intro version of the stellate ganglion block. So you can do it IV. It's minimally invasive. And for me, absolute game changer.

42:03

You know, when my son was born, I did one of those every single week, and I think it kept me present and level and calm and stress-free. So it's acting as a calcium channel blocker. So essentially, calcium is operating in the nervous system, in the muscles. Magnesium is a calcium channel blocker, which a lot of people talk about how relaxing it can be. And so is it operating in a similar way? It's blocking

42:31

the activity of the calcium and it allows for more relaxation. Yep, it is extremely similar to that. And it works primarily in the hippocampus and the amygdala. They did a study on monkeys. They put monkeys on Procaine and then put them in a live brain scanner to see where it was lighting up in the brain. And that's how they found out how it worked. Nice. So then,

42:58

I mean, it's obviously a lot of work to collect data and to run studies. You have a lot of people coming through. Have you had a chance to collect data on the different treatments, which ones are working for which conditions, or anything like that? I am building out a structured data collection method right now. I'll probably launch it beginning of next year. Right now we don't have data collected in the format required for case studies and published studies.

43:28

We collect internal data about outcomes and treatment efficacy and patient success and that kind of stuff, but it's not collected in the format that you would have to do to get into peer-reviewed literature. We've seen, honestly, some amazing things internally, some things that probably statistically shouldn't have worked and did.

43:57

So Lyme is one of the ones that our protocol seems to work amazingly. Like our percentage of success for Lyme is excellent. Great. So what does that protocol look like? Yeah, it's basically you go through a whole detox series based on whatever you have. And then it's a combination of IV therapies. eBoo is one of the mainstays there. Methylene blue, we throw that in, and then we do a couple of other things. I'm not going to give too much information on that one.

44:27

That one's a little proprietary. It's a little bit of secret sauce for us. Yeah, it almost works too well, but I don't really want it to get out. All right. So people want to know what it is, you've got to go check it out. That's cool. A lot of people struggling with Lyme. Yeah. And we do pre and post testing as well. So we don't look at just the subjective. We do a pre-Lyme test,

44:57

we do a Vibrant panel, and then after they go through the protocol, we do a post-test. You might need a couple of rounds of it. But almost every single round, we do see a reduction in quantitative and subjective symptoms.

45:14

Nice, very cool. So for the people that you can't help, what do you think's going on? What are you missing? That's always the question that I'm asking myself. Crohn's is a tricky one. That's a really tricky one. There are some things that honestly,

45:39

I think we're missing. I don't think science is there yet to know all the things that we're being exposed to. I think there are chemicals we don't understand and don't have tests for. I think there are viruses and bacteria that we don't understand and don't even know exist. I think there are things that, you know, as we live in this modern world, we might think are innocuous, but we just don't have the research on it or the timeline.

46:08

So I think there are a lot of missing pieces yet. And I think, as time progresses, we are getting a lot more data surrounding a lot of those things. Consumer Reports alone, I know it's kind of a low bar, but they're trying to expose everything. So I think there's that. And then a lot of it is, even with us and our affordability, how can we

46:36

find something so deep and so complicated and solve it in a way that people can still afford it? Because a lot of the things that we see, like patients who we couldn't necessarily help, it wasn't because we didn't have an answer. It was because our answer was just still too expensive. There are some new therapies out there, like NK cells, natural killer cells.

47:07

You know, very few people can afford these things. The raw material on these costs more than just about every treatment at our clinics combined. Could it do wonders for longevity? Senescence? Is there a potential that it could support people post-chemo with fixing a lot of the damage that was done?

47:36

Yeah, this could be an amazing treatment, but we aren't able to effectively use it because it's just too expensive.

47:47

Understood. Yeah, it seems like the ideal is finding all the causes that somebody has, addressing each one of those with a treatment that actually works, and then supporting them along the way so that they can reach the finish line, making sure that it's affordable. Because sometimes, you know, if they need 50 chelation sessions to get their heavy metals out, it's like, yeah.

48:15

So I'm hearing like the eBoo and it's like, okay, so eBoo is not really great on heavy metals, but then you're doing the chelation, which is getting the heavy metals. And then there's the separate Lyme protocol if the eBoo isn't getting enough of the infections or whatever it is, right? So it's kind of like piecing all these things together. When you interview me, you'll hear my take on it, which is that I just go ahead and address 99% of all those known causes with tinctures in a way that we can kind of address all those. But

48:43

it's always interesting to hear the different approaches. You're obviously using a bigger hammer than I am. And sometimes that gets people better faster and costs the same amount of money. Sometimes it takes longer if you're not addressing all those different causes. But I really applaud you for everything that you're doing. It sounds really amazing, and especially the fact that you're trying to make it as affordable as possible. Yeah, it's a fun problem to have.

49:12

Dr. K was telling me, he was like, hey, our vendor just had a price increase on this thing. It was massive. He said, I'm not increasing the prices. Figure it out. And so I had to go and vertically integrate. I had to go create a distribution company to keep our pricing the same, to get around a price increase that one of our vendors had. And so it's a fun game for me as a business person, like being able to say, hey, this is our mission.

49:42

I want to radically improve the health and lives of over a million people. You can't do that treating the super wealthy, and you can't do that with one, two, three clinics. You've got to expand, it's got to be scalable, and it's got to be affordable to most people. And so that's kind of my mission on why I'm building this the way I'm building it. I love that. And so is there an ideal person, whether by condition

50:07

or whether by personality characteristics, that you guys like to see when they come in the door? You're like, oh yeah, this person is going to be really successful. It's the person that believes it's going to work. The power of the mind. Time and time again. So another great story for you. Doc had this guy who came in for stem cell injections, and stem cell injections are not cheap, by the way. It's a very expensive product.

50:37

And what we use is the best of the best. And he was ready to drop over $10,000. And he said something to the effect of, yeah, you know what, I'll try it. I don't think it's going to work, but I'll try it. And Doc said, actually, no. He said, we're not going to treat you. When you believe it's going to work, you come back and see me. So the power of the mind, like being locked in, being engaged, and believing it's going to work is huge.

51:07

because what your mind can tell your body to do is so powerful. And if your mind is telling your body this is not going to work, you're probably going to override some of the efficacy of the treatments. Right. Yeah, and I think it really is that partnership. The person, I believe, has to be doing their internal work. You know, we have a four-step mindset practice and nervous system retraining practices. You have to be working on yourself and have that sort of,

51:33

I'm grateful for the opportunity here and I'm going to make the most of it, and all that. So it is this combination of external things that are coming in and the work that we have to do personally. Yeah. We have a counselor on staff, and if we hit a wall and Dr. K thinks it's because of the mindset, he says, we're not going to need more treatment until you go do this number of sessions with this person. Get your mindset right. Nice. I like this Dr. K guy. He's intense.

52:03

Yeah, he reminds me of me. Awesome. So then what is the website? Where do you want to send people to check out what you're doing? You want to send them to the podcast or to the clinic? I don't go on podcasts to push our clinics, to be honest with you. I just want to push the education. I want to get these services out there. I want to get the knowledge about integrative medicine out there. All the details about chelation, eBoo, Procaine, SGB, all those things.

52:32

So go to the podcast Longevity Unlocked, and you can learn, I think we have like a hundred episodes at this point. We talk about most of the therapies we have in depth. The older episodes, you can hear me and Dr. K go on for an hour and a half talking about the science of it. And then we had a season where we did short versions of it and people tend to like those better. Awesome. Well, we will drop those links below.

53:00

And yeah, Kyle, it's been awesome having you on. Really appreciate how transparent you are and your mission, helping a million people and trying to make it as affordable as possible with these really very cool, very advanced therapies. So thanks so much for coming on. Excellent. Thank you. So if you have chronic fatigue, whether it's from Long COVID or chronic fatigue syndrome, go ahead and click the link below to watch my latest masterclass where I go deep into our four-step process

53:28

that has helped thousands of others resolve their symptoms naturally. After you watch that video, if you're interested in seeing if we're a good fit to work together, you can then get on a free call with me. All right. Thanks so much. I'll see you over there.

53:46

I hope you learned something on today's podcast. If you did, please share it with your friends and family and leave us a five-star review on iTunes. It's really helpful for getting this information out to more people who desperately need it. Sharing all the experts I know and love and the powerful tips I have is one of my absolute favorite things to do. Thanks for being part of my community. Just a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes only

54:15

and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. It is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. Thanks for listening and have an amazing day.