Natural Support for Hyperthyroidism with Eric Osansky, DC

Natural Support for Hyperthyroidism with Eric Osansky, DC

00:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to the energy MD podcast where we help you resolve your long COVID and chronic fatigue syndrome so that you can get back to living your best life. So I'm really excited because today we're going to be talking with my friend, Dr. Eric Osansky, and we're going to be talking about hyperthyroidism and how it fits in with fatigue. So let's learn a little bit about Dr. Eric. So he is a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist.

00:29

and a certified functional medicine practitioner who has over 20 years of experience in health and wellness and has been helping people with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions since 2009. He is the author of the books, natural treatment for hyperthyroidism and Graves disease, the hyperthyroid healing diet and Hashimoto's triggers and is the host of the save my thyroid podcast, which is really good. I recommend you go listen to it because I've been on it.

00:59

Well, I know it's also good because of other reasons. Dr. Osansky was personally diagnosed in 2008 with Graves' disease. And after seeing how well a natural treatment approach helped with his condition, he began helping others with thyroid and autoimmune thyroid conditions, including hyperthyroidism and Graves' disease and hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Dr. Eric, thanks so much for coming on today. Dr. Eric, and I'm excited to be here. Yeah, just really excited to chat about.

01:28

hyperthyroidism and Graves. Yeah, so a lot of people, when they think about thyroid disease, they think about hypothyroidism or low thyroid and Hashimoto's, which is the autoimmune version of that. Can you tell us what Graves is and how does it compare with hyperthyroidism if that is something different? Yeah, great question. So,

01:53

Graves and Hashimoto's, what they have in common are they actually have both more immune system conditions than thyroid conditions. They're both autoimmune conditions. so, and not everybody with, not everybody with hyperthyroidism has Graves disease, although approximately 90 % of people with hyperthyroidism have Graves, similar with Hashimoto's, about 90 % of people with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's. As far as the differences,

02:23

So on a blood test, have thyroid stimulating hormone or TSH, which is actually a pituitary hormone and that signals to the thyroid gland to either produce more thyroid hormone or to slow down the process. in the case of hyperthyroidism, you have too much thyroid hormone. So T3, T4 are the two main thyroid hormones. There's also T1, T2, but as of now, we can't measure them on a blood test.

02:52

But T3, T4, when they're elevated, the pituitary gland will communicate to the thyroid gland, hey, we have too much thyroid hormone. Let's kind of like slow down or stop the production. And as a result, you'll see low or depressed TSH levels. I mean, what, Graves typically TSH is undetectable. On the other hand, what hypothyroidism, you'll have elevated TSH because you have lower thyroid hormone. Sometimes the...

03:21

Thyroid hormones are overtly low, like below the reference range. Sometimes they're subclinically low, where they're within the reference range, but on the lower side. But either way, that TSH will increase. Again, sometimes TSH will be well above the reference range. Sometimes it'll be within the lab range, but not within that optimal range. So hypothyroidism, increased TSH, lower thyroid hormones, hyperthyroidism, decreased TSH.

03:49

elevated thyroid hormones and then again with Graves and Hashimoto's you have different auto antibodies. So with Graves disease you have what's called thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins, which is a type of TSH receptor antibody and what happens is those antibodies stimulate or attack the TSH receptors of the thyroid and that is what causes the hyperthyroidism. With Hashimoto's you have

04:17

either thiroglobulin antibodies or thyroid peroxidase antibodies also known as TPO antibodies and They don't specifically damage a thyroid gland They're more of a consequence when the immune system damages certain parts of the thyroid gland you'll get elevations in either thiroglobulin antibodies or TPO antibodies or in some cases both and then every now well

04:43

I was going say every now and then, but actually it's not uncommon to have people with all three antibodies. So I, I'd say maybe like 20 to 30 % of people I work with will have elevated Graves and Hashimoto's antibodies. Yeah. I think that that's a really important point because a lot of people think it's one or the other. So why does that happen sometimes? Why does people have antibodies for both? Correct. Yeah. Well,

05:14

There is what's called the triad of autoimmunity, also known as a three-legged stool of the auto of autoimmunity. And with this, you need three components in order for autoimmunity to develop. One is a genetic predisposition. Two is exposure to one or more environmental triggers. Typically there's multiple triggers. And then three, an increase in intestinal permeability, which is also known as a leaky gut. And as far as like why some people develop

05:43

antibodies for Graves, others antibodies for Hashimoto's, others antibodies for both, and then there are of course a whole array of other autoimmune conditions. I mean, it does seem to come down to genetics. I mean, that's not the only reason why people develop autoimmunity in general, because again, we just spoke about the triad, but as far as why someone develops multiple sclerosis and someone else will develop rheumatoid arthritis, someone else will develop Graves or Hashimoto's,

06:12

There are certain genetic markers that seem to dictate or determine whether someone will develop or will be susceptible to developing an autoimmune condition. Just because you have the genetics, as you know, does not mean that you will develop an autoimmune condition, but there does seem to be the genetic component. But again, the good news is if you address, find and remove those triggers, heal the gut, correct underlying imbalances like nutrient deficiencies,

06:41

you can reverse autoimmunity. Nice. Yeah. I love that. And so what are some of these triggers?

06:51

Yeah, so there's, I talk about four main categories of triggers. And so for example, one would be food, a common example, gluten, foods that have gluten can potentially directly affect the thyroid and also can affect the gut, increase permeability of the gut, which again is associated with that tritovoid immunity. And then there's stress.

07:19

So like when I dealt with Graves, stress was definitely a big factor and it wasn't just the emotional stressors, but I was overtraining prior to my Graves disease diagnosis. And so the physical stressors as well could be a factor. Chemicals, so as you know, with the Toxic 5, which goes not, doesn't just talk about chemicals, but the heavy metals.

07:43

the other chemicals like xenoestrogens, the microplastics that we're exposed to, the glyphosate. I mean, we live in a toxic world and definitely that's, I think, a big reason why we have an increase in autoimmunity over the years, over the decades. And then certain infections, so viruses, bacteria, parasites, potentially stealth infections like Lyme disease, Bardenella.

08:12

And I mean, getting back to viruses during the pandemic, we had definitely an increase in people developing hyperthyroidism and Graves' disease, especially 2020, 2021. So we saw firsthand the impact of infections. yeah, so those are like the four categories. And again, I gave some examples, but there are others like mold, mycotoxins, which would fall into that.

08:41

environmental toxins category. So that could be a factor. But yeah, mean, so the thing is there are usually multiple factors that multiple triggers that could lead to autoimmune conditions such as Graves and Hashimoto's. Excellent. Yeah. And when I talk about the toxic five, heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, and nervous system dysfunction,

09:07

I put stress and trauma like into nervous system dysfunction. So that's, that's similar. Then I don't talk. I mean, I don't recommend that people consume gluten or dairy or sugar, but, um, I don't talk about the food sensitivities as much because I believe that oftentimes those are caused by the other toxins and infections that are kind of triggering the immune system to be more reactive to the foods that doesn't, that doesn't negate the fact that gluten and some of these other foods.

09:37

can cause autoimmunity as well. So I definitely appreciate that. And I appreciate the fact that you brought that up about COVID. That was gonna be a question that I had. So let's go into kind of the mechanism of action. So there's chemicals or microplastics or molds that's in somebody's body. How does that end up becoming graves?

09:58

Great question. Well, first of all, besides causing Graves, it's also important to mention that some of these are endocrine disrupting chemicals, so they could actually disrupt the thyroid. And so that's not causing Graves, but can cause hypothyroidism. And again, so you might do the testing, like the antibodies for, let's say Graves and Hashimoto's, and everything's negative because it might not be autoimmune. It might actually be

10:28

those chemicals directly affecting the thyroid. But then also they, I mean, a big thing is they, they cost, well, a few things so that they, the research does show that certain so certain heavy metals like mercury, mycotoxins, microplastics do affect the permeability of the gut as well. So

10:54

Again, that's one way that it leads to autoimmunity, not just Graves, but other autoimmune conditions. But also it does seem to dysregulate the immune system as well. These chemicals, I mean, it doesn't seem they definitely do affect the immune system in a negative way. costs an increase in pro-inflammatory cytokines and that inflammatory state, again, will make someone more susceptible to autoimmune conditions such as Graves.

11:23

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned inflammation too, because oftentimes we think of inflammation as a bad thing, but you know, it's it can be, I mean, it's supposed to be a good thing, right? Can you talk a little bit about that dichotomy? Oh, about inflammation? Well, yeah, I mean, you're right. I mean, it's not all bad. Like when you when you suffer an injury and you have some trauma, you definitely want some inflammation to the area. I mean, you don't want too much area inflammation. So, I mean, you might ice it.

11:53

and try to get that inflammation down. But again, it's an immune response and you wouldn't want to completely suppress that immune response if you have, I mean, if you have an injury. yeah, mean, inflammation gets a bad rap, but you're right. is, it's, you know, there's, there's both good and bad. There's not only pro-inflammatory cytokines, but there are anti-inflammatory cytokines as well. And,

12:23

And yeah, so you want, really balance is the key when it comes to those cytokines. You don't want solely anti-inflammatory cytokines. But again, you just, with auto-immunity, sometimes it does get out of hand. And so you might need to not only do things to find or remove the triggers, but do take certain supplements in addition to like eating anti-inflammatory foods.

12:52

You might want to take some things like selenium. mean, vitamin Z has been proven not only to help with bone density, but also it has anti-inflammatory effects. Omega-3 fatty acids, usually I recommend fish oils. So if someone's deficient in those especially, which is common, then yeah, I mean, pretty much I have most of my patients take fish oils just because when doing like an omega-3 index, it seems like most people are.

13:21

deficient, you know, and there's a time and place for other things like curcumin, proteolytic enzymes, know, resveratrol. So again, I'm not saying I recommend all those things, but time and place for certain supplements as well. So there's some of these toxins or infections that are in the body. They're damaging the lining of the gut, causing leaky gut. 80 % of the immune systems in the gut causes the immune system to react.

13:51

does that end up becoming Graves disease? it's the autoimmunity is progressing. What happens next? With the leaky gut? I mean, like you said, most of the immune system cells are in the gut. I mean, I don't know if you want me to get into like the site that like they're talking about the cytokines. I'm sure you have others and you probably spoke about the like regulatory T cells and

14:21

increase in Th 17 cells, which are associated with autoimmunity. Um, and again, when you have that dysregulation and combine with not only that increased permeability, but exposure to those environmental toxins, to those infections, you get that D you want an abundance of those regulatory T cells. They help to suppress autoimmunity, to keep autoimmunity in check. And with this, all this does, this causes a decrease in

14:50

those regulatory T cells, you get an increase in what's called TH 17 cells, which helped to promote autoimmunity. So again, it's kind of that balance that we spoke about before trying to balance those cytokines. with, TH 17 is an all bad. It's, you don't want to just completely suppress TH 17. But again, if it gets out of hand, that could be one of the mechanisms to help promote autoimmunity. And again, too little.

15:20

regulatory T cells and some of the things I mentioned before, such as vitamin D, fish oils, even probiotics, curcumin have been shown to help increase regulatory T cells and while at the same time decreasing those TH 17 cells. Gotcha. So the immune system, so you'll have to correct me because I think that the way that I used to think about Graves was that the immune system somehow became

15:49

you know, thyroid receptor antibodies and start stimulating the thyroid to produce more thyroid. Is that still accurate in terms of- Yeah. I mentioned that earlier. Yeah. When talk about the antibodies. So yes, you're right. So as far as the actual immune, yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, when we talk about the antibodies, get the, with Graves, get thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins, which is a type of TSH receptor antibody. And so it's the actual antibody that

16:17

stimulates those TSH receptors, which causes the excess production of thyroid hormone. yeah. And also important to mention that a lot of people with Graves' disease have what's called thyroid eye disease. And with thyroid eye disease, you get those same antibodies, those same thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins that attack the tissues of the eyes. And that can cause swelling of the eyes. That can cause eye bulging. In some cases, it could cause double vision. Yeah.

16:45

Okay, great. So those goes to me. My next question is that, so then you've got elevated levels of thyroid that's floating around in the body. And so what is that doing? What are the symptoms that are manifesting? So if somebody's listening to this right now and like, what are the, and they, and they don't, and they have graves, but they don't know it, or maybe it's like early signs for them. What could they possibly be experiencing from a symptom perspective? Yeah, great question. So one of the ways when I dealt with graves,

17:15

So I was losing a lot of weight. Now I was also dieting and detoxifying. was overtraining. So, you know, some of that was probably due to that as well. But the way I discovered that something was wrong is one day I was taking my resting heart rate and it was 90, which wasn't crazy high, but still it's higher than it should be. And then I checked it the next few days. It was anywhere between 90 and 110 beats per minute.

17:43

And so I wasn't catching on with the weight loss because I thought that was related to everything I was doing. But, um, but besides the heart rate, ended up losing 42 pounds going down to 140 pounds, which, you know, I wasn't trying to lose that much weight. Um, and, uh, so yeah, weight loss is not, I can't say everybody experiences weight loss. Some people don't with Graze, but that's like more of a classic symptom, the heart resting, heart rate increasing heart palpitations, uh, tremors.

18:13

anxiety, insomnia, just increased bowel movements are common as well. yeah, hair loss, very common. I know what both hypo and hyper, but it seems to be worse in my hyper patients compared to those with hyperthyroidism and Hashimoto's. But yeah, those are some of the common symptoms. Again, especially like what I find is

18:40

The heart rate in most people elevated palpitations quite common. Like I said, the weight loss, really depends on the person. Um, but the hair loss is very common as well. And then, um, and then again, some of these other symptoms that increased appetite, I had a voracious appetite, which again, I thought it was more just to restricting my diet. And when I was trying to lose weight, but, but again, everything speeds up like what hypothyroidism it's the opposite.

19:09

you get coldness, whereas like another symptom of hyperthyroidism, like heat intolerance, with hypothyroidism, you get weight gain compared to weight loss. You get brain fog instead instead of increased bowel movements, you tend to get constipation with that. So yeah, so what graves, everything increases and yeah, so it's, but again, sometimes it could be overlap of symptoms.

19:37

Sometimes we mentioned people could have antibodies for both Graves and Hashimoto's You know and again not that they will necessarily fluctuate back and forth between hyper and hypo sometimes that could happen But it's also worth mentioning there is what's called Hashi toxicosis, which sometimes gets misdiagnosed as Graves But it's actually Hashimoto's with that where the person experiences transient hyperthyroidism And so they might kind of go back and forth

20:06

between hyper and hypo and be like, Hey, what's going on here? And the doctor might say you have graves, uh, but they never tested the graves antibodies. just based it on the person being hyper thyroid. And maybe they did those, the thought that Hashimoto's antibodies, but still a number I've seen over the years, some people get misdiagnosed as having graves when they actually, when you dig deeper, they would have the negative TSI, the negative thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins.

20:34

and it turns out that they had Hashi toxicosis. Interesting. I never knew what that term was. I always thought that it was from destruction of the thyroid, a bunch of thyroid hormones released, and they get these periods where they end up with lower thyroid, but in the meantime, they have these moments of having higher thyroid. Is that not the mechanism of Yeah, well that is, yeah. Like what Hashimoto's, is. Like what Hashi toxicosis, I mean...

21:04

Again, I guess you could say even with like regular Hashimoto's, but with Hashi toxicosis, it does seem like it persists, like not as long as Graves, but you have like, like I said, it's not going back and forth, you know, where like, like few, like in the morning, someone's hyper the evening, someone's hypo, you know, not to say that doesn't happen, but, yeah, you're absolutely right. Where you get the damage of the thyroid hormone and then you're the floods into the bloodstream.

21:33

And so the person experiences hyperthyroidism. But again, when you talk about that, you would think, well, you know, that's probably what is that going to last? Like a few minutes or an hour two. But again, that could persist for days, many times weeks, sometimes even months. So people who have hyperthyroidism or Graves, they can have fatigue as well, right? It's not just Hashimoto's or hypothyroidism. Yeah, absolutely.

22:00

I mean, I can't say across the board, everybody experiences fatigue and, I'll be honest, like when I dealt with graves, I can't say that I was fatigued. Uh, but it makes sense why fatigue would be common. mean, one reason is that hyperthorism does put a lot of stress on the mitochondria, which are the energy powerhouses of the cell, as you know. Um, so if you have stressed out mitochondria, mitochondrial dysfunction,

22:29

over time that definitely can lead to fatigue even in the presence of hyperthyroidism. And then adrenals, adrenals also can cause fatigue. mean just widespread inflammation, know, like again if someone has stealth infections that you're familiar when it comes to of course Lyme and Bartonella being that you personally dealt with them as did I and I mean so those can cause fatigue so they could but

22:57

But like I said, just alone, the impact that it has on the mitochondria can result in fatigue when dealing with Graves. Yeah, it'll eventually get burned out, it sounds like. Yeah, well, I yeah, I wouldn't say burnt. You mean the thyroid or the mitochondria? Mitochondria. Mitochondria, yeah. Yeah, because it's funny, some people, some doctors will say eventually you'll burn like the, Graves, they'll use the term burned out, you know, your thyroid is probably going to burn out.

23:26

And and usually what happened with that what they mean with that or I don't know sometimes what they mean I actually have a podcast episode where I spoke about that Usually what happens is again someone might have the antibodies for Graves and Hashimoto's and over time in the back even though they're hyper at the moment There's damage taking place to the thyroid in the background because they also have those Hashimoto's antibodies so They might become hypo and so a lot of doctors will tell their patients. Yeah your thyroid

23:55

Eventually may burn out. So when he said burnout, I thought you took about the hour, but you're right the mitochondria Will yeah over time if you're dealing with Not just hyperthyroidism, but other conditions definitely could put a lot of stress and cause a lot of dysfunction. Yeah Okay. So in terms of the what is the the conventional treatment for hyperthyroidism?

24:22

So there are essentially three main treatment options from a conventional standpoint. Number one is anti-thyroid medication. In the United States, methimazole is commonly recommended. And sometimes with propyl thyruracil, also known as PTU, and in other countries might be carbimazole, which converts to methimazole. And so really it's blocking thyroid hormone production.

24:51

And, um, and again, it's, uh, comes with a lot of side effects, uh, but there is a time and place for it. I do have a good number of patients on the antithorium medication and just because it does work and the other two options are less desirable. So number two is radioactive iodine. And, um, that's when, um, pretty much you're using, uh, radioactive iodine to ablate the thyroid, to destroy the cells of the thyroid gland. And.

25:21

most of the time the person will become hypothyroid and need thyroid hormone replacement every now and then they won't use enough and the person will need another round of radioactive iodine. and then number three is a thyroidectomy getting thyroid surgery and again there's a time and place for thyroid surgery but the issue with thyroid surgery and radioactive iodine is again these are Graves is more of an autoimmune

25:50

condition than a thyroid condition. So if you're just removing a thyroid or you're ablating the thyroid gland, you're not doing anything to improve the immune system health, or at least endocrinologists won't do that. They'll just recommend the treatment and again, put the person on thyroid hormone replacements. so yeah, those are the typical, one of those three options usually will be given when you get diagnosed with Graves by going to an endocrinologist.

26:19

So they're addressing symptoms. They're trying to decrease the amount of thyroid that's floating around in the body, but they're not addressing the cause. Exactly. Stopping that autoimmunity from happening, the stimulating effect of the immune system on the thyroid. Yeah, exactly. Which is important. I mean, you want to do that. And like I said, I'm not opposed to the medication.

26:46

But I think it's extreme again, not say there's a time and place, like I said before, but a lot of endocrinologists, unfortunately, will jump right to the rate of active iodine thyroid surgery. Um, whereas others will be more conservative and I'll put the person on, on antithrombic medication and studies show, even though I'm not a big fan of antithrombic medication, there are some people that, you know, when they're on the antithrombic medication, they kind of get, mean, I won't say remission cause we're not addressing the cause of the problem, but

27:16

some people will be able to stay on a low dose of antithrombic medication for many, many years. And this is according to the research. And I bring this up because many endocrinologists will say it's not safe to be on antithrombic medication for longer than two years, for example. And the research just doesn't support that. The research shows that, and again, this isn't my goal. My goal isn't to have someone stay on mitthimazole, for example, long-term. But if it's a choice between staying on

27:46

low dose antithrathorin medication for five, 10, 15 years, or getting your thyroid removed or ablated, to me, I'd rather be on the medication, the lower dose of medication, as long as you're tolerating it. If you're having elevated liver enzymes, depressed white blood cell count, or other symptoms, that's a different story. But if you're tolerating it, to me, there's no reason to jump into these other treatment options. Yeah, I would consider that a band-aid. You I always prefer natural band-aids.

28:15

But it's kind of like, know, but oftentimes we need band-aids. know, somebody's got anxiety or heart palpitations or chronic diarrhea from having Graves' disease and you want to slow that down and you want to give them better quality of life. Like, let's do that while you're dealing with the marathon of getting rid of what's causing the autoimmunity. Because oftentimes that takes longer, correct? Yeah, I mean, I mean, without question, a natural approach, there's no

28:43

I mean, there's no quick cure. Like again, they'll talk about radioactive iodine surgery being a cure, but again, you're not cure. As you said, it's more of a bandaid approach, the natural option. The goal is to address the underlying cause, but you're absolutely right. I mean, it takes time to do that. And there are just some people that choose the surgery or radioactive iodine because they look at it as a quick fix and they, you know, and they don't want to take the natural approach or.

29:09

Again, unfortunately, most endocrinologists aren't on board with the natural approach. So they might go to, they might read one of my books, for example, and then bring it up to the endocrinologist and endocrinologist shoots it down and says, well, there's nothing that could help auto immunity. It's uncurable, you know, you so diets not going to help, you know, reducing your toxic burden is not going to help. So yeah, I mean, the only solution really is ultimately to remove your thyroid or to get the rate active.

29:38

Unfortunately, a good number of people will take the advice of the endocrinologist without really opening up their mind and at least giving a natural approach to try. Right. And then they find your book and then they're kicking themselves. I mean, there's so many people that I've seen over the years who were like, gosh, I really wish I hadn't done that. And they're usually talking about, you know, radioactive iodine or getting the thyroidectomy or something like that. So then what's your approach then to address graves holistically?

30:07

Yeah, great question. So, so I should before talk about like the autoimmune component, I should mention that from a symptom management perspective, I was able to avoid the medication. Not everybody can, but there are certain herbs that could help potentially. So I took a what's called bugleweed, which is not one of the more common herbs out there, but it has anti-thoracic properties and, uh, and

30:36

Motherwort, which is kind of like a natural beta blocker, obviously not exactly the same and these are not as potent as a medication and honestly I had no idea whether or not they would work. I learned about them when I was taking continuing education credits as a chiropractor and again never knew that I would need to take them for myself in the future but thankfully I did attend those seminars and learned about them and

31:02

And I took both of those herbs when I was dealing with raves and they work great. sometimes people will take them and they won't work. I'd say most of the time, like 70 % of the time, which is pretty good, they will work, but some people, they won't be effective and they will need to take the antithrombic meds. But so there are natural options. L-carnitine also, which I'm sure you're pretty familiar with L-carnitine.

31:30

I mean, it has multiple benefits. Actually, mitochondria helps with fatty acid oxidation, but the research shows that in higher amounts, like two to 4,000 milligrams per day, it could actually block the entry of thyroid hormone into the cell. So that's another possibility when it comes to managing symptoms naturally of Graves.

31:56

And, even other hyperthorac conditions are focused on Graves, but there are other like toxic multinodular goiter. there, so there are people I've had where they've taken like the bugleweed motherwort for that, um, completely different cause it's not autoimmune. But, as far as talk about Graves and autoimmune component, I mean, really it's, just, uh, addressing those triggers, just again, cleaning up the diet, eating an anti-inflammatory diet.

32:24

I mean, definitely the toxic five that you talk about play a big role just, you know, besides the food. And you mentioned like the stress and the sleep and, you know, the nervous system, dysregulation, all that. But, but yeah, I mean, without question, the heavy metals, the, you know, the chemicals, the mold in many people, the infections. I mean, just, you know, we, take a little bit, you and I take a little bit of a different approach.

32:52

I do some functional medicine testing still. know you just have people on the protocol just based on your experience. And I mean, that's a great thing about functional medicine is that we all have different approaches. And again, we all change. I think you used to do testing, and then you just found out that, hey, I could just take this approach without doing the testing for my long haul COVID patients and all that.

33:21

And who knows, maybe in the future, you know, and again, I don't do a crazy amount of testing. That's one thing too. So I am more conservative when it comes to testing. But yeah, I mean, it all comes down to addressing these imbalances, addressing these, these triggers, healing the gut, correcting any nutrient deficiencies. So how long does it typically take for people to get better, to reverse the condition?

33:49

about two or three weeks usually. I'm just kidding, just kidding. No, it's, Yeah. I wish honestly, I mean, it does take, it takes quite a while. I mean, in my situation took about nine months before everything was looking good on the blood test, including the antibodies. And I was off the bugleweed, but it's not uncommon for it to take longer.

34:19

I mean, it could take well over a year. And again, even in my situation, when it looked good after nine months, I didn't know if things were stable, like would I relapse? Because that was like the first time I was off the bugleweed. And so it took a few months really to know, okay, have I really restored my health? Am I really in remission? But yeah, mean, everybody's different.

34:46

I mean, in some cases, maybe it takes shorter, but I find, I mean, anywhere between like nine and like 15 months. But again, some people could, as you know, mean, it's these auto-immunities complex, you know, just the body is complex. So again, I know it's easy to get discouraged when someone's not seeing results quickly. And again, that's not to say it takes, you know, nine months or 12 months to start feeling better.

35:14

but as far as really reversing the autoimmune component of Graves, it definitely can take time and everybody's different. Some people will seem to progress smoothly without any setbacks, but I'd say on average, mean, roadblocks are common. It's again, it's definitely a healing journey and everybody's different, but that being said.

35:41

there is a reason, you know, there, why you develop graves, there's genetics as a factor, but it's not the most important factor. So even though it's going to take a while to restore one's health to restore and reverse the autoimmune component, again, I definitely think it's worth it when you look at the potential consequences of getting radioactive iodine thyroid surgery. And again, there are definitely people, like you said, there are people who get radioactive iodine surgery and regret it.

36:10

I mean, there are also people that get it and they don't regret it there, but you just don't know which category you're to fall into. And once you get it, you can't undo it. So if you get your thyroid removed and you have it real, and if they do any damage or if you just have a hard time regulating the thyroid hormone, you know, there there's no turning back and the same thing with radioactive iodine. So that's why I think it's worth taking a natural treatment approach because most of the time it will work.

36:38

It's just a matter of being dedicated and committed and realizing it will take time. Yeah, I appreciate your transparency. It's the same in my program. You know, I tell people it takes at least 12 months to get better. You know, if they have long COVID or chronic fatigue syndrome. So and it's just it just has to do with the amount of time it takes to get the toxins and the infections out of the body. You know, and don't know how much each person has. So I appreciate that. And it's interesting because

37:06

you know, whether we're dealing with long COVID chronic fatigue syndrome, Graves disease, or Hashimoto's, the reality is, is that there's autoimmunity, there's immune system dysfunction, and there's the toxic vibe that's in there, right? And so it has to come out. so having, getting that mindset, you know, where, where people have to understand that it's patience and persistence, that it's implementation is huge. You know, we don't take anybody into our program anymore.

37:32

who can't demonstrate when I'm on a free call with them, I ask them these questions, and they can, if they're not willing or able to implement, they're not gonna be successful. And so we don't even let them into the program. It's that important. So I appreciate you saying that. And I also appreciate you talking about the roadblocks. I talk about them as bumps. Like there's always bumps along the way. There's gonna be 30 or more different bumps over the next 12 months.

38:00

And what you need is somebody like me or you in your back pocket for any sort of, uh, to navigate those bumps, right? Cause that's, I feel like that's, you know, some of the most important work that we do is helping people navigate around those bumps. Because I mean, how many times do people try to go with this alone? They, they try to take some of the herbs that you're talking about or whatever, and they hit a roadblock and they don't know how to get around it. You know what I mean?

38:27

That's the benefit of having a guide who's done this before. So I appreciate that. And then you also talked about genetics versus the environment. So I'm curious about your take on this. I've done a deep dive into genetics years ago and just found that it was really all about, I remember there was a functional medicine conference, IFM conference on genetics. Maybe it was like 2010 or something like that. And I remember what I learned at that conference was that it was all about the environment.

38:56

And so I'm curious how much work on genetics do you do? Do you recommend any supplements for people's individual genetics or are you mainly focused on the environment or a combination? Yeah, first of all, I think I attended that same IFM conference on genetics, yeah, and you're right. mean, they pretty much say, I mean, cause you can't change, you can change it expression of genes, but you're to change that through the environments and diet and lifestyle factors. So

39:24

Yeah, I don't really do genetic testing. mean, especially I actually had someone recently, I mean, there's different types of genetic testing. So there's testing to look at like genetic variations, like single nucleotide polymorphisms. I can't, I usually I don't do those testings. mean, you know, honestly I've done it on myself years ago. went with 23andMe was not, it's different now, but.

39:54

I did a 23andMe and then imported it into like genetic genie and found out I had the C677T homozygous MTHFR. And again, I'm not saying there's no value in that. So, you know, but I had a patient not too long ago do another type of genetic test looking at like HLA markers, just really seeing their susceptibility to different conditions. And then they wanted me to interpret it. I'm like,

40:23

Well, what is there to interpret? Like it's a susceptibility. Like there's, it's not really going to change my approach to what we do. I mean, I guess it's nice to know what you might be susceptible to, but just because you're susceptible to something doesn't mean that you're going to develop it. And what we're doing for one autoimmune conditions, Graves is going to help you prevent other autoimmune conditions from developing in the future. I'm, yeah, so I'm not, I mean that, that type of genetic testing.

40:53

I'm not a big fan of, I'd rather the person spend their money elsewhere. Um, as far as like, again, the genetic testing, like just mentioned, looking at genetic variations again, um, you know, I'm not opposed to it more. So I can't say I've never done the testing, but more times it's the patient that does it on their own and then they might bring it to me. And again, I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to reading those tests. So I'll, you know, there's, there's some more of the more common ones I'm familiar with, but.

41:23

But there are practitioners that that's all they do to spend time just focusing on the genetic test. it's probably better. They're probably better off having a consult with that person who if they want to really know the ins and outs of like all the genetic variations that they're dealing with. And again, you're always going to get fine. Everybody's going to have genetic variations. And like I said, it doesn't mean it's not sometimes going to play a role in detoxification, methylation. So I'm not saying it can't come in handy.

41:52

but just, guess I've had good results without doing those tests on everybody. Would I get better results if I did the tests on everybody? I don't know, maybe, but I'll throw that question at you. you do, my guess is no, since I don't think you do like functional medicine tests, so. Right, yeah, no more genetic testing. know, I did, went down that rabbit hole as well and studied some of Amy Yasco's work and got very familiar with the 23andMe and putting it into genetic genie and doing all that interpretation.

42:22

Um, and I just really didn't see it move the needle. Um, and I found it to be an interesting intellectual activity, but practically, you know, people, people are getting better so much faster when I was removing the environmental toxins and the infections. So, yeah, yeah, we're definitely in the same vein there. Okay, great. So, uh, we've got a couple minutes left. So we've, we've, we've gone through and we kind of talked about the progression of graves, what sort of symptoms people would have, what,

42:52

what treatment looks like. So I guess let's go a little bit into that. You talked about diet, you talked about supplements. What kind of, what does the process look like? you introducing one supplement at a time? Are they capsules? Are they tinctures? Are there certain brands that you like? I I don't need specifics on what you're using, but I'm just curious about.

43:17

Like what does that protocol look like? you end up, you my protocol ends up with like 25 or 30 supplements that people have introduced all along the way to get rid of the toxic five. So I'm curious, what does your protocol look like for most people? Yeah, it's, I mean, as far as like the, whether they take tinctures or capsules or tablets, mean, the herbs, like the bugleweed and motherwort for those who take that it's in tincture form typically.

43:44

And then everything else that varies, there's some things I will recommend in tincture form. Others I will recommend capsules. mean, compliance also is an issue too. So there are some people that just absolutely won't take the tinctures. Like my wife probably wouldn't take the tincture. She wouldn't force herself with where it's with me. It's like, okay, it's just like, it just down anything for the most part. But so we got to also...

44:13

take that into consideration. But otherwise, it will be like a variation of like some tinctures, some capsules, maybe some things with tablets, but mostly I would say tinctures and capsules. then as far as what like if they're taking everything at once or like one at a time.

44:36

I mean, most people are taking the supplements, I would say not one at a time unless if they are super, like if they have certain sensitivities, like whenever I give recommendations, I leave it up to the person. I mean, if the person, you know, like if someone's dealing with like mast cell activation syndrome, then maybe it's best for them to do it one at a time. But the typical Graves patients, again, most of the time they could introduce multiple supplements at once.

45:05

And it doesn't mean that like, if there's like five things going on where they'll necessarily will do all five things at once, we might prioritize certain things. So yeah, like if someone needs, you like you gave an example, like 25 supplements, like I'm not going to like say all at once take like, you know, 25, but I wouldn't say like just do one bottle like for a few days or a few weeks and then introduce the next one, unless if someone...

45:35

is sensitive or if they want, like again, when I give the written recommendations, I'll really give them the option. actually mentioned that, that most people do fine taking the supplements, the recommendations at once. But some people are sensitive or some people just aren't sure. And so if someone just doesn't have a lot of experience with supplements and I want to introduce them one at a time, just to make sure that's tolerating it, that that's perfectly fine. And, and then brands.

46:04

Um, yeah, I mean, I definitely like certain brands just because I mean, some brands are, um, I mean, they have a better rep, some brands have a better reputation. Some brands are third party tested. Um, so you know what you're getting in the supplements. Um, I mean, especially like, know like consumer labs has like rent done random testing of like probiotics, for example, and just found that a lot of probiotics don't have.

46:32

the potency of the strains that listed on the labels and you know what fish oils you want to be careful and make sure it has like a certificate of analysis or I mean, I wouldn't go into like Costco or you know, like Walmart and just get like fish oils, like just whatever brand of fish oil. So, so yeah, definitely. Yeah. So without naming specific brands, cause I do like different brands and I can't say there's like one single, just like with you, I'm sure you use different brands too, but yeah, I

47:03

I mean, some things are more important than others. you know, like again, if I recommend certain brands and a patient comes back and says, Hey, I got, I like these. And if they're knowledgeable and I think they're good brands, I'll be like, yeah, you know, if it's comparable, I don't really care if they take exactly what I recommend, but I'm always going to give specific recommendations. Cause you know how that goes. If I were just to say, get whatever licorice roots.

47:32

Um, you know, get licorice root or probiotic or fish oil and whatever other, you know, especially like the herbs, you got to be careful, but really with other supplements too, they might just go randomly on Amazon and just, um, not really pay attention to the quality or again, go to Walmart or GNC and just get something that's not working. And when they're spending, you know, I understand they're trying to save money, but they might end up spending more money if they're getting supplements that aren't working. Right.

48:02

So when you're killing infections, and then we'll transition, when you're killing infections, do you ever get die-off? And if you do, what is your favorite die-off support?

48:16

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think most practitioners who work with infections will get some die off in their their patients. I mean, the basics, first of all, make sure the person is well hydrated, you know, drinking plenty of water, you know, movements, which I know, especially like in your patients sometimes could be challenging, you know, like in your clientele with dealing with fatigue and all that. But

48:45

You know, just moving. but, um, but yeah, the, the, far as from a supplement perspective, uh, giving supplements to help with detoxification. Um, I mean, they could do things. was going to say lymphatics, but lymphatics, you could do things without yet. Like, it's not like you have to jump on a rebound or you could do some dry brushing and there, there are other things. Um, not sure if you're familiar with the flow vibe. I haven't.

49:14

Kelly Kennedy, have you familiar with Kelly Kennedy? She deals with lymphatics, another way of supporting lymphatics. But NAC, like N-acetylcysteine, binders sometimes to help with the die off. mean, sometimes things like milk thistle as well. But yeah, so a combination of, again, hydration, the basics, hydration, movement, some detox supplements, some binders.

49:45

Excellent. All right, great. So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us today, Eric. So where is the best place for people to go and learn more about the wonderful work you're doing? Yes, so thank you. So they could visit savemythower.com and there you could find all my books, which leads to Amazon. So Amazon have three books, two on hyperthorism, one on Hashimoto's.

50:11

And my podcast again, say my tower.com and click on podcasts, or you could just type in, my thyroid in your favorite podcast platform. And then I have a newsletter, healthy gut, healthy thyroid, which you could check out by visiting, my tower.com forward slash newsletter. Awesome. That's great. And then how are you working currently with people? Are you doing one-on-ones groups? What does that look like? Yeah, currently mostly one-on-ones. mean, I've, I've

50:41

dabbled with some groups and so when this comes out you never know. But over the years it's been mostly working one-on-one and pretty much now exclusively remotely. Excellent. Well, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us, Eric. Hopefully this has helped some people who maybe they didn't know they had hyperthyroidism, maybe they're going to go get checked and hopefully they'll come ask you for help.

51:06

Well, thank you again. Thank you so much, Dr. Evan was great having this conversation.