IFS Parts Work to Heal ME/CFS/LC with Tiffany Brown-Bush, ND - #155

IFS Parts Work to Heal ME/CFS/LC with Tiffany Brown-Bush, ND - #155

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Hey everybody. Welcome back to the EnergyMD Podcast, where we help you resolve your chronic fatigue, whether it's from chronic fatigue syndrome or long COVID, so that you can get back to living your best life as you've heard me speak before. I'm really focused on resolving the toxic five. So this is a combination of heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections and nervous system dysfunction that I feel like is really at the root of everything. So I'm really excited because we're going to be talking with Dr. Tiffany Brown-Bush today, all about some certain tools that she uses to help people fix their nervous system dysfunction. So let's learn a little bit about Dr. Tiffany. So, Dr. Tiffany is a traditional naturopathic doctor, licensed neuropsychotherapist and certified functional medicine clinician with 24 years of experience in wellness and healing. She specializes in ADHD brain health, anxiety, dysregulated nervous systems and reversing prevention, reversing slash, preventing dementia.

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Dr. Tiffany developed the Doc Brown-Bush method, which uses the brain, body and mind to promote healing. She is trained in Emotional Freedom Techniques, safe and sound protocol, internal family systems, brain spotting, functional neurology, recode for Alzheimer's, naturopathy and Advanced Functional Medicine. Wow, science often seek her out as a natural alternative to psychiatry and medication. Tiffany, thanks so much for joining me today. Absolutely. Thank you for having me and making your way through my bio.

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You're very impressive. What can I say? Thank you. So, yeah, so nervous system dysfunction, trauma is one of the things that we kind of touch on. And it sounds like it's it's a big part of the work that you do. Can you, I guess maybe we'll start a little bit with your story. Can you tell us a little bit? How about how you made your way to really specializing in the psychiatric issues. Yes, that's a great place to start. I, I,

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you know, it started for me personally, I always was in love with self help and psychology and all the things, and decided to pursue a career in mental health. And as I started to navigate my own health journey with Lyme and all of the things that you know, mycotoxin illness and Mercury illness, all the things, I had to double back and start to get some sort of mastery of naturopathic medicine and functional medicine. And I started to learn over time that all of these things needed to be blended if I was going to actually recover. And then realized that I was surrounded by people who also needed the same sort of interventions, who hadn't pieced it all together. They were maybe working in a silo of some sort. They were doing all the supplements, or they were doing talk therapy to no end, or they were, you know, working on it, changing their diet over and over again, just pieces, piecemealing things. So I realized I wasn't the only one who ended up on this journey.

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Yeah, absolutely. And so then you mentioned talk therapy, and so a lot of people go for talk therapy. Why doesn't talk therapy always work? You know? Another great question. Often times, in the old way of doing things, there were two things that were going on. One, there was a lot of cognitive restructuring work, so you're really staying in the head and not dropping into the body, where all of this is happening is someone who navigated and navigated Mercury issues and all the things. There was a lot happening beneath the head,

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and we were dropping into the body and talk therapy. And then the other piece of it was with a lot of the psychoanalytic, you know, we were going back and looking at a lot of different things, but not teaching people how to fill their body, notice their nervous system, and so forth and so on. So there was just a lot of pathologizing symptoms that were actually nervous system related. You know, the system was having a an appropriate reaction to feeling like attacked by something you couldn't see, you know, and and here we are telling giving people a diagnosis and giving them medication and not honoring their real experience. So people were sitting in in their head, or they were being pathologized and actually kind of disembodied. So I think that's where it went. Kind of arrived for a long time.

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Okay, and so then what's the approach that you found to be most helpful? So over the years, through trial and error, through amazing teacher.

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First, you know, I had the opportunity to be in the room with Dr Neil Nathan, saying that if you do not do something to stabilize the nervous system, doesn't matter what you do, they won't get healthy. You know, they won't heal. And I just started to realize that, yes, functional medicine is amazing, and getting back to true functioning makes a lot of sense, and talking and and processing is important, but you also have to understand how the nervous system and the brain play into that. Understand the brain stem, understanding the cerebellum, understand how the brain loads work together. So I took my process that I made my own, which is that method that you mentioned, which is brain, body, mind.

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And so when people come to me, they understand it's going to be probably a strange experience for them, but it's going to be looking at all areas as their healing at the same time and not overwhelming. We'll start with one stage at a time, but once it gets going, we're looking at all systems

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Excellent. You know, I oftentimes tell the people in my program that we don't know if your nervous system dysfunction is 90% of the of the issue or 10% right? And I have seen people have really significant improvement, and it sounds like you had Lyme and mycotoxin illness in mercury, and were you able to resolve it, mainly by doing nervous system retraining and these other techniques that you've cultivated? Absolutely not. No.

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I had to do all of it. I really did. I had to do all of it. And so that's a great question, because you never know. And so one of the things I do, I think it's really important to just drop into this for a second, is I make sure I take an assessment of adverse childhood experiences with all clients patients, looking at their history, because unbeknownst to me and my journey, that's what set me up to be extremely vulnerable to not being able to resolve these the way that my husband was, who was in a similar environment, who had an, you know, an idyllic childhood, I always tease him. His mom was Joan Cleaver, so everything was very easy and positive. So he got mycotoxin exposure, no problem. You know, he didn't have the genetic predisposition to have problems with it, but he also didn't have the being bathed in cortisol experience that I did as someone who came from a pretty traumatic background,

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you know, pre verbal trauma, I had problems in the womb. I had problems once I got out into the world, and so by the time you start actually having encounters with these different things in the environment, you're not as resilient. You're supposed to bend and not break. But some of us break. Some of us, you know, seemingly break in the face of that. So what got me over the hump? Absolutely, was doing safe and sound protocol repeatedly, for sure. But, I mean, the herbals did an amazing job. The biological dentists did an amazing job. The, you know, the detox supplements and all the sauna all of that was very, very, very important in my journey, you know, the dietary change. So I really do believe I got a great foothold with the supplements that I used and the lifestyle changes and but sleep and nervous system work and higher power work, all of that, that's what got me my life back. Because I really thought I was going to be out on disability, definitely. Yeah, yeah. I see that a lot with folks, where it's always a combination everything has to be addressed. But I tell people also, you know, you can remove the toxins off of the nervous system, but the nervous system may still be dysfunctional, right? And so they have to go in, and you have to do this work. So you talked about getting the ACES test the adverse childhood events, you know, on everybody. But doesn't everybody have some nervous system dysfunction? I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, I do. I think there's some, once you get sick, especially, the system is going to up regulate, right? And it can get stuck. That's our challenge. Like our that vagal break, that vagal tone gets off, and you're just kind of stuck in sympathetic, or in my case, in my practice, I get a lot of people who come in depressed, right? So they're stuck in dorsal vagal they just kind of flattened out. And so we're not we're not flexing anymore. And I think that can happen to almost anyone for sure, you know, given the right circumstances, I also do. I know you see this in your practice, you'll have, you know, two people in the same household, and a lot of times he is super resilient and Yeah, and he's like, I don't know what the problem is. You know, there's the house is full of.

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Oh, that he's going to work and conquering the world, and she can't get out of bed, right? You know? And so I do think there are differences. I get a lot of of course, because I have a mental health practice, I get a lot of women with trauma as part of their history, head injuries and trauma, goodness gracious as part of their history, you know. So you're adding insult to injury, and so so I will get really sick women who just cannot function, can't get out the bed, can't care for themselves or their child, kind of things. And I do find that that can track with the history of pretty dramatic trauma, but I honor that it's not always that that case, yeah, yeah. The majority of the people in my program are also women, you know, between the age of 50 and 70. And you know, some of it is, you know, women are more likely to ask for help, but it also they are also more susceptible. I have a chapter in my book, actually, which is why husbands don't believe their wives when it comes to mold

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exactly what you were talking about. Like, yeah, I think there's something about the xx or the XY has some, you know. I mean, we don't know there. There are definitely some genes at play in addition to, you know, the environment. Yes, absolutely that, that there. That is exactly it,

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you know, and just honoring that and the female brain is, well, way more complicated, you know. Dr Evan is known to say that, like, it's like a two way highway with men and and women. It's like the Interstate in LA, it's like expressway. It's just like we're doing so much, and so we are way more likely to be sensitive as well and crash, you know? So I just think there's such a vulnerability, and I try to explain that to families too, and you can see it with you have a woman in a household and she's doing 12 things at once, right? And so the burnout is there, and the husband's like, I got one thought going, and I'm good with that one thought, like, things are are pretty simple in there, and I think that adds to the resilience as well.

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Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. My wife and I have had conversations about it where, you know, we're just coming from different places, and I'm really just, I've just got one thought, thinking about one thing, and she's managing a whole bunch of things, you know. And, yeah, yeah, imagine what that feels like, yeah. And I don't think it's helpful. Just don't think in this healing journey. And I love that doctor, Evan at the Eamon clinic, talks about this and just has reverence for the female brain, just that complexity contributes to the depression and the anxiety and the vulnerability, and just honoring that that's the case, and simplifying as the female brain goes into perimenopause and menopause. And see, I'm thinking about your age group, your age range, she's now kind of going from that, that juggling everything, and the estrogen dropping out, and all of that thing. She's just, she's the resilience has been impacted, right? And her brain is trying to reconcile where she's been and where she's going and and it's just a very interesting time for women.

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Yeah, so in terms of terminology, do you like the term nervous system dysfunction? Or do you have a preference for like, what's happening with these people? Yeah, I tend to tell them that it's a dysregulation. But that also comes with the space that I'm operating in with psychology, you know, to dysregulated emotional state. So I tend to explain neurological DISRE dysregulation as well as just nervous system dysregulation. Same, same idea, though. Okay, so we've kind of established that this is a main component of of illness for for so many people, and especially people in our community who are watching this and listening to this today. So then tell us a little bit about your method on how you work with this. Yeah, yeah. So, and like you heard me say, in my own journey, I definitely think functional medicine matters. I think I don't want to underestimate the value of, you know, gut health and nutrition and making sure you're doing the right you know, meal plan for you and eating the right ways for you, and circadian rhythm, all of those things matter, right? But what I will often find is that when people come to me, they may have a history of head injuries, they underestimate how dramatically that can impact things. So I want to just take a beat and just speak to that, because brain hitting the head, hurting the brain is part of the nervous system, and that's a big piece of this. And so often people have had car accidents. They've fallen and hit their head and just not thinking anything of it.

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And that will start to manifest somewhere between five to 10 years later.

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And so just from a brain perspective of looking at, okay, just what's going on with the brain stem, which is at the base of the skull, and the cerebellum, which is at the back of the brain, the two sides of it, you know, if you've got an injury to that area, the cerebellum, you're going to have issues with firing into the rest of the brain loads. So one of the areas that I'm screening for always is just like, what is actually going on with your brain? Have you hit your head? Where did you hit it? Can I do basic in office cerebellar testing with you, are you misfiring? Because you're misfiring into all those brain loads? If the back of your brain is unhappy,

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the cerebellum is 80% responsible for the rest of the brain, 80% responsible. Yes, so many people come in and they think they have like ADHD all of a sudden, or something like that. And it's really like there's an injury of food sensitivity. You have gluten issues going on with the cerebellum. And it's inspiring into the rest of the brain, activating

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gear shifting in the brain, activating anxiety in the brain. So I always ask people to just kind of look back over their history. Did they have a concussion? Did they hit their head? But think nothing of it, you know, did they have a car accident? Are they an ex football player? Did they get their bell rung? You know, like, how many times did that happen? And a lot of times that is playing into now, you've got some sort of environmental illness variable that we're dealing with. So there's that, and I also want to speak to I do a lot of

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looking at the brain stem and trying to see if primitive reflexes have come back, because that's another thing that will fire into the brain and have the brain itself actually dysregulated. Primitive reflexes are in the brain stem, and due to illness, trauma, some sort of injury, they can reactivate. And a lot of times, you've got people struggling because they've got this primitive reflex that needs to be reintegrated. So part of my method is literally teaching people how to balance their brain before we get to Vegas, nerve and we're, we're, you know, doing all these super sophisticated things like brain spotting or the safe and sound protocol just, can you do some exercises to make your brain calmer, right? And I tend to find post COVID, post head injury, post divorce, there are a lot of reactivated primitive reflexes in the brainstem. Dr Melillo talks about this a lot, and I've been trained in functional neurology pretty aggressively, and so it's one of the things I learned I had to look for with a lot of people, especially people being diagnosed with Alzheimer's, in that population, these primitive reflexes have reactivated. So it's part of how I get the brain to synchronize again and to fire properly, just calming that down

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and look like can you give us kind of an example of a technique? Potentially, yes, absolutely. So the Palmer grass if you think about your child. So everyone go back to when your baby was first, you know, born, and you're going, you're putting your finger inside your child's hand, and they're always going to close their hand around their finger, and it's like, oh, that's so cute. It's a reflex. That's the Palmer grass reflex that is not supposed to be activated. And one of the things we do to test for that, and sometimes especially when I was working more in pediatrics, is that would be active a lot of times with my my kids with neuro divergency, that was just part of what was going on, is their brain was misfiring because that hadn't integrated properly. But what we've learned is that with adults and illness, that's reactivated, or the startle response, which I bet is a really big one in your your population, and that's a more row. And when with a baby, what you'll notice is that they have this kind of startle reaction, right? Because they haven't integrated, they don't have the prefrontal cortex. They're trying to build their cerebellum. There's a lot going on. So they just have these reflexes. A lot of times, when women come into my office with all these chronic illness, fatigue and pain issues, they have these just hairpin startle responses, you know, like, I can't make any noise and I test it. And some of these women just want to jump through the roof. They're so on the edge. And so once i i test for that, we actually reintegrate it. So there are exercises to reintegrate these primitive reflexes. Yes, I don't test anything. I can't fix this.

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Show. So there's all these different things you can do to reintegrate. And it's I had a woman in last week, and I could tell that she was on edge, and I knew she was going to hate the more test. And I tested her, it was very big reaction, and I had her start reintegrating and doing the exercise and office, and she said it just feels so good just to do this right? And that's a hemisphere connection. You're connecting both both hemispheres of the brain. You're going across the corpus callosum, the midline of the body. And she was calming herself, it immediately felt good to her. So I give people these things, you know, because this is functional neurology, it's free, it's just the time commitment, it's 15 reps, a couple times a day, and it can really make a massive difference. And here's the thing, as you're adding in all of the functional medicine work, you're balancing the brain, balancing the nervous system just like we our body is designed to right you're wiring in these things. So I do find that it drives the process faster.

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That's that's one big piece. So for me, when I look at nervous system dysregulation, I really want to start with just like, what's going on here? You know, how is this functioning? Because there's so much executive function issue and so many memory problems. And it turns out, there's a lot that needs to happen. If you put you put someone on one foot and try to get them to balance, and goodness, if you ask them to close their eyes and test their vestibular system, they're immediately falling over. Well, of course, they've got problems. Of course, they feel dysregulated. Their whole vestibular system is misfiring, right? So then we start to retrain that. And so that's one that's first pathway for me into this next piece of like, more sophisticated nervous system support. So is that brain of the brain, body, mind, that is, that's a big piece of people will come in, and it's like, I can do the functional medicine. That's that far. It's easy. I need to get you to test, you come in for a brain health assessment. Let me just check out your brain, and I put them on the interactive metronome testing system as well. That's a big piece of it. And I test brain timing and and you just find that there's so much actually going on neurologically for people. And so if you change their body and mind as you're kind of rebalancing their brain, that that just drives the process faster. And then we'll do Vegas tone, and we'll do all the other things for a nervous system, but I will layer it. So I'll start with those three things, brain, body, mind, and then the next phase is always that nervous system like, do we need to go into brain spotting? Do we need to do safe and sound protocol? But I need a strong foundation, and people will do that with me and feel like they're 50% better. Those that that yeah, they're just, I they'll go away. Sometimes, just, they'll do that and and like, four to five months in, they're just like, Yeah, I'm good, and I don't want to test it. It's like, leave me alone. Don't do anything else to me. And we don't always even go into the more sophisticated stuff, because a lot of people are really post concussed and not properly kind of rebalanced as a result. Okay? And so that so you were dealing with the things you were just talking about. That was the brain, body and mind, yes, yes. And what's the difference between each of those? I wasn't really, I wasn't tracking all that. Oh, good, no, that's a great question. And so, and I think, too, I don't think I dropped into the mind piece as much. So I think that's where I lost you. So the functional medicine is going to be the body piece, and, you know, sleep and nutrition and all of those things. So we'll, we will do that. I will often, if someone comes to me, the first thing I'll do is their blood work, and I'll do their brain health assessment, which is what I was just describing. And so that gets me, you know, looking into what's going on physically, and then what's going on with the brain, right? And then we'll start working on, giving them things to do on those two domains. When it comes to looking at mind, a lot of that is just, what have you done psychologically? If this is somebody who's coming to see me, and someone you would see in their practice, they may have been chronically ill, chronically fatigued, for a long time, you know, losing bits and pieces of their experience in their life, and feeling more and more detached from things. And so I'll look to see, well, what have you done psychologically? And then that's where I'll drop into more of ifs work parts work with people, and really look at what's happening there. And ifs is internal, family systems. And it's a type of psychological approach. It's a whole framework.

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Work that believes, just like with what we do with functional medicine, tapping into the healing potential of the body, that the that the healing potential of the mind has just been blocked, and we need to unburden and get space from the things that are blocking the healing potential of the mind. And that's that mind piece of things, very cool, and what does that look like? So that people can get a sense of of whether that's something they want to pursue? Yeah, that's a great question. So internal family systems is going to look like just, it's so different from a traditional therapy appointment, it's going to be just getting into understanding managers and the firefighters and self so that's the framework. So I'll do some light cycle education with people explaining that managers are the striving parts in the system. They're a protector in the system. Those are our hard working parts that kind of get us burnt out. Firefighters are the parts of us that will come forth in our system and have us using coping mechanisms that you know, society would deem as vices and maybe overuse behaviors that could cause problems.

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Exiles are going to be parts of the system that feel a lot of tenderness and pain. So we start talking about that aces assessment, that adverse childhood experiences trauma from the past, or feeling worthless or feeling inadequate or unloved, those are exiles in the system. Those are deep pains in the system. And working with that can absolutely help to balance the mind, right? So unburdening there and getting healing there helps a lot with the body getting into healing. And so I teach people about their protectors, so their their managers, their firefighters, their exiles. And what you're trying to do is be self led, and self has healing capacity to work with all these different parts in the system. But a session just sounds like, oh, okay, I'm hearing that your anxious part was kind of driving the bus today. Let's, let's talk to that part of you, or let's hear from that part of you, what had it triggered? What had it activated? Can we get it to peel back a little bit so that we can work with it so it's not on you, but it's with you. You're trying to be with a part, instead of in the anxious part, or in the striving part, or in the hyper vigilant part, because that shows up in the community a lot.

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So is it helpful to kind of separate it from the self and have it as like a third party? Is does that detachment kind of help in some way it? That's a fantastic question. I think what happens a lot of times, even with you know like diagnoses, is like your diagnosis anxious, or your diagnosis depressed, or your diagnosis as unwell, right? And so if we can start to get that space and realize, no, you're whole and healthy and resilient, and you've gotten like lost, like that center of you has gotten lost, that part of you that's connected to nature, that's connected to your higher power, like that's just gotten buried by anxiety and overwork and all those things, then you're able to get some space and work with it better.

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And we will literally talk to parts in a session. I will talk to a part directly and ask, you know, can I work with that part directly? Critics in this community, a lot of times, there's a pretty harsh inner critic in this population.

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There's a perfectionist part in this population a lot. And just getting all of these parts to, you know,

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step back and let us get into that healing that is a massive piece of it. And I'm just going to add here when I get people who have seen everyone, like all of the greats in the space, and they can't get well, and they've got the best care and the best supplements, and they've done therapy, and it's almost always that the parts work and and then working with the nervous system even more deeply, like the safe and sound protocol and changing safety cues, those two things really are what people, I find need when They're stuck. They need to work with the part.

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They need to work with a number of parts. I've seen beautiful shifts happen for people that just were stuck in Fibro for forever and nothing was helping, and that's why they were stuck.

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Great. Can you tell us a.

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Little bit more about the safe and sound protocol. Yeah, so safe and sound is Dr Stephen Porges that is based in the polyvagal theory of looking at the nervous system and being in ventral vagal is the relational

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iteration of where the nervous system should be, or rest and digest parasympathetic. And, you know, those are the different names for what we're shooting for, right? And poor just says that what happens is we're getting stuck right. The breaks not working. So we're in sympathetic dominance, which is, you know, fight flight, or we've crashed right more endorsed vehicle. And so I won't get into the Dr Stephen Porges story, but it's a fascinating story. And, you know, look into how he got here, because he was definitely not starting in trauma work and helping people rewire their nervous system, but he realized that what was happening is a nervous system no longer felt safe, and that eye contact and tone of voice and connection and working with sound could go in and rewire and re pattern the nervous system so safe and sound protocol is a listening system as it it's administered by a provider who's been trained, and the method, and it's, it's we, we have to roll it out over a minimum of five days. Some of the practitioners do it for a month, and teeny tiny, 15 minutes or 10 minute, yeah, because some people are so sensitive and so dysregulated, I can do it in five days. I haven't ever had to break it down to

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to that to that short of your that's a very long time to be like meeting and working together, but you're working together with the music and working to calm the system down. And it's, it's really an amazing experience, and I had to do it three times to help my startle response and my nervous system, because I was getting the Bartonella had me so activated, I was in such an alarm state. Once it was cleared, you couldn't make any noises around me. You couldn't drop a pan or anything like I just would come out of my skin, and safe and sound helped me to feel safe again in my environment. That was a big piece for me. Brilliant. So you had that experience, and then you decided to get certified or trained in it. Yeah, it's kind of hard to unknow these things.

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It's like, well, this is what it takes, because, you know, you're pathologizing. Oh, I'm just anxious. I'm not that anxious. I'm a little anxious, but this is unreasonable, like I was startling at everything, and it was because of the the infections, it was because of the toxicity. I had gotten stuck and sympathetic,

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and I was, you know, angry and irritable and activated when they did the spec scan on my brain. When I first got diagnosed, I was super flooded. I had the Ring of Fire. Is the the one that doctor Amon talks about at the Amen Clinics. My brain was so activated on the spec scan, and I had been treated for a lot of things at that point, and they were like, What is going on with you?

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And so we could see it on the psych skin, and after the three iterations of SSP, I was no longer in Ring of Fire. So that that for me, was what I needed as confirmation that this was the right direction to go with people like, I have a pretty deep toolbox, so we don't go to SSP right out the gate, right if we can do something that's not as involved, and just do my basic brain, body, mind and do some parts work great. But if, if someone just had years of chronic activation, and they were, you know, they grew up in an abusive household, and so their their nervous system has just been dysregulated for a while, and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. And okay, we're, we're hitting SSP, and then I've done it in so many different scenarios where it's just been kind of jaw dropping, like, six weeks out from SSP, the difference in just how people are encountering their environment,

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brilliant. Have you ever seen the parts work or the SSP not work,

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and why do you think it didn't work? Yes. Um, that is a great question. Let's see parts work is a great go to so I haven't seen it not work.

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So it's, it's, um, people love it. They love going inside. It's almost meditative. They love it, especially people who are in their head and thinking a lot and striving and figuring.

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Out life. They like the experiential quality of it. So then, because it has self healing capacity, it always shifts something

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I haven't seen parts work not be impactful. I have found that SSP brought out too early doesn't work, and that's why I launched in. She let me just get the brain itself balanced. SSP comes in, like at that eight month mark for me of treatment, I don't, I don't bring it in early in treatment. It's expensive, it's time consuming. You know what I mean? And it's, it's a big gun. I needed a big gun

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for my own personal healing. I was pretty, pretty Bartonella was a real monster for me, and then I was super toxic and the whole thing. So I needed a lot of support. But so that's what I have found, is SSP too early,

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is is a no go. So, and they probably wouldn't love me saying that, but that has been my clinical observation. Is later.

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So yes, well, I appreciate your transparency, your honesty, yeah. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm so impressed with everything that you're doing. I love the fact that you're combining everything. I love the different tools that you've cultivated. It's really remarkable the work that you're doing. So for so what does it look like for people who want to work with you? Are you just in person? Are you also online? What are you doing these days? Yeah, yeah. I'm a hybrid. So I am in office a couple times a week, and people will travel in sometimes for if they really want to have the brain health assessment and just do all the things. But they can work with me virtually. Parts work is something that you can do in a kind of a coaching way in different states and different countries. So I'm able to do parts work, coaching with people to calm down their system. And so I'm able to work with people virtually as well, and two days a week, that's what I do.

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Very cool. And where are you located? I'm in Cornelius, North Carolina. Okay, great. Yeah, nice Lake community. So it's a nice place to come visit.

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Nice. And so where can people find you? Online? Yes, I am at Doc Brown bush.com,

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so if you just put in Doc Brown Bush, I'm luckily the only one and same thing on Instagram and Facebook. And I have a a little podcast, a private podcast where I just, I just go on and on and on about my thoughts, so they can check out some of my my different podcasts as well. So that's integrative mental health therapy with Dr Brown Bush, excellent. And then we also have a free gift. Want to learn how to handle your perimenopause and ADHD symptoms, the perimenopausal and ADHD Survival Guide, yes, yes. Very cool. And then there was,

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let's see, looks like there was also, oh no, that's nothing. Okay, good, yeah, so we'll drop those. And do you still have that intensive?

38:13

Yes, yes, yes. So what you're thinking about is, I do a number of different intensives. Sometimes, you know, people need to get the work done very quickly and intensely. So the SSP intensive is a five day intensive where we're working through we're blending parts work and SSP at the same time. And then for people who are like, Oh, I just really need to work with my critic part or my perfectionist part, I'll do a couple of days intensive work, and I can do those virtually with people to just kind of help get them unblended from those parts that are kind of activating their nervous system.

38:53

Brilliant.

38:55

Well, Dr. Tiffany, thank you so much for joining me today, for educating me, for educating our tribe, our audience here today, thank you absolutely. Thank you for having me.