The Missing Link to Resolving ME/CFS with Emily Colwell, ND and Leslie Meyers, ND - #146

The Missing Link to Resolving ME/CFS with Emily Colwell, ND and Leslie Meyers, ND - #146

00:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to the EnergyMD podcast where we help you resolve your chronic fatigue, whether it's long COVID or chronic fatigue syndrome so that you can get back to living your best life. So I'm really excited about today's episode because we're gonna be talking about something near and dear to my heart that took me a long time to learn. So if you've heard me speak about the real root causes, you'll hear me talk about the toxic five, a combination of heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, and nervous system dysfunction. So we're gonna dive deep.

00:33

on nervous system dysfunction today and how you can work on it. So I'm really excited because we've got two doctors with us here today. Doctors, Emily, sorry, Emily, how do you pronounce your last name? Oh, well, no worries. Oh, well. Thank you, Dr. Emily Colwell and Dr. Leslie Meyers, a little bit easier for me, thank you. Two naturopathic doctors who happen to be married, woohoo, who work together to combine physical and emotional healing to help those suffering from chronic illness.

01:01

There are six pillars of health are nutrition, movement, hormone health, gut health, emotional wellness, and mentorship. So important. They feel that the missing piece to healing from chronic illness is often emotional healing and nervous system healing. Although it is important to include all of the pillars when healing. Agreed. Dr. Colwell's lived experience and clinical expertise, she is also a social worker.

01:27

In anxiety, childhood trauma, family addiction, chronic illness and cancer have taught her how possible it is to find relief in healing no matter the circumstances. In a down to earth relatable style, she teaches others how to transform their relationship with themselves and experience healing no matter what they are navigating. Dr. Meyers believes healing involves listening to her clients, supporting them to overcome patterns in their lives and putting together the puzzle pieces to help them fully heal.

01:56

She has seen how mentoring and not just doctoring is part of the magic sauce to helping others. Yeah, that's really a great way of saying that. Her goal is to empower individuals to take control of their own health. Emily and Leslie, thank you so much for joining me here today. Your pleasure. Thank you for having us, Evan. So we're gonna be talking about nervous system dysfunction, nervous system retraining. Let's start there. Let's start with some definitions. So...

02:25

Before we can start healing, what is nervous system dysfunction or that's what I call it. Do you guys have a better term that you prefer?

02:35

No, I would say nervous system dysfunction or imbalance for sure. That's how we refer to it as well. And how would you define it?

02:46

Well, it's kind of like the nervous system, instead of having like in a car that you can shift the gears on, it's like the gears get stuck and they lose the ability to shift into different gears. And then a lot of people end up running in that stress response or fight or flight response so much of the time that

03:16

It goes off even when it's not appropriate or needed and it's exhausting for the body. And that is also not when healing happens. So it makes it much harder and slower for healing to happen because the ability to shift gears is diminished. And the exciting thing is when we can help those gears come back online so that it changes the person's experience and their ability to heal.

03:47

Very nice. And I think I'll go ahead. Yeah. I was just going to say that I think a lot of people can relate to some level of nervous system dysfunction in our society just because of how our society is based. We, our ancestors, when they were in that fight or flight mode, the sympathetic mode of the nervous system, they were actually running from the tiger and they were doing things based on survival.

04:15

but they weren't in that mode as much as we are these days. And it can be turned on just like Emily said, by being in traffic or just having like a busy day or your phone going off because you've got a notification. So we're in that mode a lot. And then we're not in the rest and digest parasympathetic mode, which yes, that's part of that is when we're in that mode are cells that are.

04:42

tired and worn out can get recycled into brand new shiny cells and, and we can have a chance for repair and proper digestion and absorption of our nutrients and all the good things. So, um, most people can use some lessons in this, in this way, but particularly people with, um, chronic fatigue and things, chronic illness can really benefit, uh, from, from regulating the nerve system. And often they're

05:10

we just really find over and over that there's a big connection there. And you can exist in both at the same time, right? You've got the sympathetic and the parasympathetic and the, the fight or flight or the rest and digest. And if you're in one, you can't be in the other. Is that correct? Yes, definitely. And it makes it tricky. Right. Yeah. And so how does, how does this relate to trauma, whether it's mental, emotional, physical,

05:41

whatever. Yeah, I think when a person experiences trauma, it kind of primes their nervous system to have its baseline in the stress response. And so then they're going through life. And you know, when there's trauma, it impacts the brain's ability to send messages back and forth. And so part of their system thinks that the trauma is still here, even though it's not.

06:10

then they go out into the world functioning in that way. And it ends up impacting so many things, both emotional health and physical health as a result. Yeah, trauma's a bit, it's amazing how often people that we work with who have chronic illness have had experiences of trauma. Not everyone, but so many, so many.

06:40

And when that gets left out, understanding the impact that has on the nervous system, that's pretty impactful.

06:50

And a lot of people don't think that they necessarily have had trauma. You know, they, they're like, Oh, you know, trauma is like really significant abuse, physical, mental, emotional, sexual. Like I didn't have any of those stuff. Is that, do those people, could it, is it possible that those people have still had trauma or have had nervous system dysfunction? Totally. I think, you know, there's the big tease and the little tease and the

07:18

Big T's are the ones you just named, but there are endless little T's that we experience that can end up being experiences of trauma for people. And sometimes they're like micro traumas that go on and set the nervous system up with that response. And that can impact it as well for sure. We're not just talking about the big T's for sure.

07:43

And by big Trauma, you're talking about like trauma with a capital T versus trauma with a lowercase t, is that right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You know, for me, I was bullied and rejected by a peer group a couple of times and I grew up in a family of imperfect humans, believe that or not, and siblings, right? Who are all trying to get their needs met. And a lot of people don't realize that just those things can be

08:12

micro traumas or little t traumas. It is so true. It's so true. And it's interesting how often when I'm working with someone and they're working with us in our programs and Dr. Meyers is working with them on their physical health and I'm helping them with their emotional health and they in the process, something from their childhood comes up about bullying.

08:38

or being excluded or I cannot tell you how often that comes up and it has been so monumental all the way through in these quiet little ways that you don't necessarily even realize it's still impacting things. Yeah, so true. And maybe even that nervous system response that you had after the little T or the big T, maybe for that person, that nervous system response was

09:08

was helpful. It helped them to be hypervigilant or keep them safe if they were still in a situation. And then it gets to some point when they're older where it's just not so helpful anymore, but their nervous system is still doing the same thing. Yeah. And that's with my work, I do a lot of parts work. Are you familiar with that? A little bit, but please share. It's this concept that we're made of.

09:34

a lot of different parts of ourselves that make up who we are. And some of those parts formed when we were a lot younger to help us cope with some of the situations, just like Leslie's saying about if someone's being bullied and, you know, a part forms and helps them figure out how to navigate that in a way that helps them survive it, right? When it's so uncomfortable. Then you fast forward to adulthood and maybe that part still shows up now, but it's not so, it's kind of getting in the way.

10:04

and we can actually get to know those parts and help them update their beliefs. And when that happens, it changes the person's experience in their current life now. And it helps heal some of the past too, like it integrates things. Yeah, my wife likes to say, your adaptation served you then, but no longer serve you now. Right, right.

10:34

But I always find it interesting when I help someone discover what their adaptation was and how it's showing up now. Because when we realize that it's still trying to help us, we don't have to feel so mad at it. And that part really appreciates it when we're not so pissed with it all the time. And instead, we're appreciating how it's trying to help us. And then it starts to be able to take on a different role. Yeah.

11:04

Now we're kind of moving into some of the mindset work. How do you guys utilize mindset in the nervous system retraining you do?

11:14

Well, yeah, I mean, we do a lot of different approaches, but one way of starting to allow somebody to garner like a larger awareness of themselves and being able to look at things from the outside a little more easily. I find that meditation is really helpful for that. All different kinds of meditation. I do love mantra-led meditation. I think it's a really great one where

11:43

you can go in a bit deeper to that quiet space, but it's not exactly quiet so that it's so hard and it can make it a lot easier. And so sometimes people have a lot of success with that and it makes a big difference. And other times they're like, ah, this is not quite right for me, or it's just really hard for them to sit still and that's not a good fit. And then their work with Emily is really helpful because she has a bit of a different take on that.

12:14

Yeah, and I think for me, I have mindfulness in a different way than Wesley does with meditation. And I really help people to form a different relationship with themselves and with how they're even, I help them begin to witness their responses to things and witness.

12:42

the symptoms that their body is having so that...

12:48

So that they start to, because one thing that I find a lot with chronic illness is that we often kind of feel betrayed by our bodies, right? We feel really betrayed by our bodies a lot of times. And so we learn to kind of disregard our bodies while we're trying to survive how bad it feels. And there's something about learning how to regard it and to...

13:19

sometimes invite curiosity in terms of symptoms that brings us into the now. And that's a different kind of mindfulness that can end up being really helpful to people like micro moment mindfulness.

13:34

Yeah, that's one of the things I've been playing around with more lately is noticing the sensations in my body and then being curious about them. And it's super interesting and it's really very cool that you were just kind of talking about both of those. Yeah, go ahead. You know, there's an example that I find really helpful.

14:05

If you make a fist and this fist represents whatever we're dealing with that's here right now that is not wanted, whether it's emotions or physical illness or experiences, and take your other hand and try to pry that fist open to get that stuff out of there, to fix it, to make it go away, and notice how your fist responds.

14:29

What do you notice?

14:32

resistant. Yeah, right. And this is a totally normal human response. We all are going to be doing this for the rest of our lives as as one of our responses. And now I want you to take your other hand. This fist still represents all that stuff. Take your other hand and just gently hold your fist and notice what you find. Yeah, it automatically starts to open. Yeah, like softens and

14:58

I want you to notice nothing in your fist has changed and yet your experience of it feels different in that moment. And that's really what we talk about a lot is how to learn how to do this dance. Because as we're learning how to do this dance, we're building new neural pathways that offer our brains and our nervous systems a new response to things that we've had just this one response to for a long time. And it changes.

15:25

like the nervous system fight that's happening in our bodies. Made me think of that way you just said. Well, it's also like what you were saying with the parts. Like once our part realizes that we're not trying to like make it wrong and we're not mad at it and we're not trying to, you know, just like say, no, don't be like that. And we're listening to it and compassionate for it. Yeah, the parts softens. Kinda like that.

15:54

try something different. Or you can say that with an emotion, right? Like instead of saying, I want this sadness or this anger to go away, just stop it, right? Instead of just saying, okay, like it's okay. Here, yeah. Oh, that's, I noticed it in my chest. Oh yeah, gosh, I can feel that. You can even say hi to it, you know, if that doesn't feel too woo woo, you know, like just noticing.

16:21

what is happening in our body. We don't do that. That's not what our culture has us doing, right? Trying to get out of our body so much of the time. Right, distracting ourselves with our little devices. Yeah. Well, our little devices or staying so, so busy that we don't have to feel, or helping other people out the wazoo so that they are the priority and our own selves are on the, you know, the end of the...

16:51

list. All those are ways that we try to not have to feel it or experience it, but it affects our nervous system. Yeah. Why do you think that is?

17:05

Why do I think it is that it affects the nervous system? No, that people don't want to notice or why we're divorced, I guess, from noticing. Is it because we're not taught how to notice sensations in our bodies? We don't have the modeling. What do you think it is? It's uncomfortable. I think it's all those things and more. I think our culture definitely does not.

17:33

It's not fostering an awareness of ourselves. And it really is.

17:47

it's so much about trying to get rid of symptoms, trying to get rid of feelings, trying to, making them wrong, which is my book that I wrote is, what if you're right? Discover how right you are in a world that makes you feel so wrong, because there's so much that we have learned to make wrong. And then we have a nervous system response to that wrongness when really, a lot of it can be an invitation. It's like, you know,

18:17

chronic fatigue syndrome for nine years when I was in my twenties. And I, those symptoms were so wrong for me at that time. I only knew how to look at them as wrong and do this like hand and fist thing. Like, what do I have to do to get rid of this? Which put me in that, you know, stress response a hundred percent of the time. And when I look back at that time now, I can recognize I was spending so much of my time

18:47

taking care of other people and other people's needs and trying to please other people and trying to accomplish that I was not home inside of me or my body. And my body tried to call me, tried to call me, got louder, louder, louder, till it was screaming at me to come home. But I didn't know how to think of it that way. I thought it was so wrong and that it was betraying me. And there's something really powerful.

19:17

when we start to notice even for micro moments, because that's really where it becomes tolerable in the beginning is noticing for a micro moment or two, what it feels like in our body when this is happening, not just the pain, but like the whole experience, you know? And...

19:38

then if that's all you can handle is one or two seconds, that's it. You're already building new synapses that are building new neural pathways to take these micro moment pauses to tune in. But I think.

19:52

We're not, our culture certainly does not encourage or teach people to.

19:59

to tune into the yucky feelings. It's about what we need to do to get away from them, their symptoms or emotions or whatever. So, yeah. So I wanna come back to this, but I also wanna ask Leslie about the mantra meditation that you were talking about. Do you have a favorite mantra right now or ones that you generally recommend to folks? Well, I, so.

20:27

The first time I learned mantra meditation was through a TM center, transcendental meditation. And so they gave me a mantra and I'm never supposed to say it out loud. They even whispered it to me and it was somehow they matched me with my mantra. So it's a secret. I can't tell you.

20:49

But there is also, I have this list that I give people and it's a list of Sanskrit mantras and how to choose one for yourself. I can send you the link and you can post it with this. There's also the Ziva meditation book by Emily Fletcher and she's great and she really brings mantra meditation to I think,

21:19

to us in a way where our mainstream culture here in our society can really grasp onto it quite easily. And the mantra that she shares that you can start with is one, just the word one. And so I think that's a nice simple one to start with. And then you just say it in your mind quietly to yourself. You know, you don't say it out loud. So, yeah. And I think that also people can just

21:48

pick their mantra if there's something that they want to that feels good and warm inside them, like the word love or the word warm or whatever it feels like, something that's nice and positive or just feels like it's a good part to their healing. Those are great. Yeah, I've done some psychedelic work as part of my personal growth journey.

22:14

And some of the words that have come to me in some of those sessions were words like, surrender, trust, I'm safe. Like safety became like a really big one for me. Like I really understood that my nervous system had to be safe in order to heal. Yeah, so thank you for sharing those. That's really cool too. I like, yeah, thank you for sharing those. That's so amazing.

22:43

So I want to come back to Emily. We were kind of talking a little bit about, I'd love to hear like a step by step in terms of mindfulness. So you talked about noticing. And so what do you do next? Whether you want to talk about parts work or whatever, like what do you do personally and how do you recommend, how do you walk people through like this process of, I guess, getting to know their nervous system or mindfulness?

23:13

And for example, let me give you an example. I mean, there are so many, but this one's just popping in. So I, historically, when guests would come to visit us, before they would come, I would be like an absolute maniac cleaning and trying to get it like perfect. It was very scary in the beginning.

23:43

She's like, maybe you should sit down and like eat or rest a little. And I get so pissed off. I was like, don't get my way. We got to get this done. And it was, it didn't matter if I had a migraine, the flu, whatever, I was going to get that done, which you can see I'm like blowing past my nervous system's clues. Right. And which is like another theme in the chronic fatigue syndrome world, I believe pushing through.

24:11

Right. Yeah. You know, the pushing through. How many patients I work with who have this same affliction of cleaning before guests. And when I started playing with the micro moment in a different way, I was coming up the basement stairs one day with this frantic cleaning and even the dog looked at me terrified. And I thought, this is not good. This is really getting serious. And I paused for just a micro moment to notice what it felt like inside my body.

24:40

while I was doing that. And my blood was racing so fast, my heart was pounding, I had a little bit of a shake and it just felt terrible in there. And I had not even had a clue that it felt terrible, you know? And that was all I could handle and then I had to go back into the cleaning. But as I kept playing with these micro moments, the next time I was cleaning like that, I noticed that.

25:07

I realized again, oh my God, I had no idea. It felt so bad in here. And then as time went on of practicing those micro moments of mindfulness, I got to a point where I would go and lie down flat on the floor for 30 seconds and just notice my blood just racing, heart pounding. I would just notice it and lie there. And then that was all I could handle and I'd get up and go with the cleaning. Over time, that 30 seconds became five minutes, became.

25:36

Oh my God, I'm starving or I have to pee or I'm so thirsty. And then I would go and take care of that. And so it was this like micro moment growing of these neural pathways by just noticing in those moments what was happening inside me while I was experiencing that. And so that's how I work with patients. Whatever the issue is that they're.

26:02

dealing with, whether it's that they just got into a fight with someone and their brain is just going, going, going, obsessing about the story about it, to drop below the story into their body and notice how they're experiencing it in their body right then. And to just sit there with it for as long as they can tolerate it. Which again, could be for just a couple seconds in the beginning, but it's this practicing of it that makes our tolerance increase and that's building new pathways. And ultimately,

26:31

what we find is in the beginning, you're like, I don't think this is doing anything, but I'm like, stick with it, keep going. And then one day they get in a fight, they have this brain turning and their brain just automatically starts to have a different response where it's like, oh, let me just see what I need to do right now. Or let me come in here for a second. And then we know, hot damn, the pathway's been growing, you know, and here it is. So.

27:01

And all just from, yeah, it's beautiful. And all just from noticing. Yeah. But noticing like within a embodied way, you know? Yeah. Right. And the micro moment reset is really a detailed way to do it. Yeah. And one particular way, that's an audio that we'll share with everyone. And it's an audio that I originally made for myself.

27:28

to help me with my nervous system when I would get really gripped about something and my nervous system will climb on board and it's a visualization that really helps to disengage that or to soften it. And it doesn't work for everybody, but it works for a lot of people. So, quick thing. So it sounds like there's a, after the noticing, potentially you can go into visualization.

27:56

or something else accepted? Yeah, it can. Yeah, for some people it's going into the visualization. For other people, as I'm working with them, they're getting to know some parts of themselves that have been getting really loud in them, trying to be seen. And when I help them learn how to connect with that part, then they get to go home. And when that part gets really loud, they get to turn towards that part and say, oh man, I can feel that you're feeling this.

28:24

right here with you. I'm not going anywhere. I'm right here. No matter what happens, I'm going to be here with you." And that creates a safety that that part had not experienced, you know, and that you can see how that then impacts the nervous system. That's that yelling you were talking about, that part that's inside your body that's yelling. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we make it so wrong because it feels so bad.

28:50

but it's really just yelling, not for us to get in there and fix how it's feeling. It's like yelling, see me, see me, you know? And like to be acknowledged for how it's feeling and to be present with it. That is like, I just never would have known how powerful that is until I started experiencing it myself and then sharing it. It's just crazy powerful. But until people do it, sometimes it sounds a little woo-woo.

29:19

Woo-woo is good. So, you know, mixing a little woo-woo in there is always pretty good. Yeah, I was gonna say, so this always reminds me, I love this example. We have two daughters and when our youngest daughter was five, she, I remember I was at the sink washing dishes and my hands were all sudsy and I had these in listening to a podcast and she was like yelling, mama, mama. And...

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I couldn't come right then, because my hands were sudsy at the podcast. And I'm like, okay, I'll just come in a couple minutes. And, but she kept getting louder, like, mom, mom. And then she was yelling, maaa. And so finally I just took off my headphones, dried my hands and I knelt down. I said, what is it, Saret? And she went and she did a cartwheel. And she said, ta-da. And then she ran in the other room and played. And it was so...

30:18

simple and lovely and short and not hard. And all it required me doing was just pausing and listening. And then we didn't have to go down. Like if I had done that at the beginning, there would have been no yelling and it would have been peaceful. But yeah, so. That's like what our parts do. Mama, mama. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, isn't.

30:45

Isn't that really just the, you know, the five year olds, the nine year olds, you know, that's kind of that wasn't listened to and wasn't wasn't heard. Is that part of that? Yes, absolutely. And that's like, yeah, it's kind of like inner child work, except that with parts work, you sometimes discover there are quite a few, you know, inner parts in there or inner inner children in there that have different feelings and drives about different things. But yeah, it's that same idea.

31:15

Exactly. And we don't have to fix how they're feeling. Just being present and acknowledging it is so powerful for them, just like it is for us, you know?

31:28

And how do you know which part is having an issue? Is it just an area of discomfort?

31:34

Well, it kind of, I mean, it depends. And as I'm meeting with somebody, they will be talking and like telling a few stories about what's going on. And sometimes I can see that there's a theme or sometimes it's that we can, they'll come in and say, I just hate how I always respond in this way to my kids, when they do this or to my spouse or whatever it is.

32:04

And I just, it just drives me crazy that I do this and I've tried to get over it. And it's like, oh, that's a part, trying to get your attention. Let's see if we can beat it. And then we go and I kind of take them through it. It's a visualization for some people, for other people it's more of a felt experience and the parts communicate with them and let them know what they're afraid will happen if they stop doing it. And in that process,

32:34

we start to feel actual compassion for that part. You know, like, my God, I never knew that's why I was doing it all this time. And those parts are protecting other parts that are like the feeling abandoned or alone or not cared for parts. And they get to go connect with those and just be so present with them. And I mean, it just feels different. It feels different. And it changes the system.

33:03

as the parts update. Yeah, I don't know much about parts work, but it sounds like the parts are psychological, more so than physical, more so than some sort of uncomfortable sensation in the body that you're talking to. Well, it's interesting because some parts communicate very much with physical symptoms. Some parts, that's how a person can know that that part is really present right then, is because they'll get this particular feeling in their stomach or on their chest.

33:30

So there is an association for some parts and not for others, kind of varies. Nice. Okay. So it could be this combination of psychological plus physical. Okay, great. And then oftentimes people want to know, I mean, I think this work is lifelong, but like how long does it take practicing this kind of work in order to notice a difference in your health, your healing, your psychology, your relationships?

34:01

different for everyone, right? Really, it's hard to answer. Some people can get really quick results where they feel a big difference right away and it's not all gonna be better right away, but it helps them along because the edge is taken off and then they can continue because they're motivated because they've really felt the change already. And other people, it takes a bit of time, it does. And then at the same time, we wanna be...

34:29

also supporting their very physical parts, like gut health and hormones and nutrition and the right kind of movement for them. So we find that doing all that together simultaneously really allows like the building blocks to stack up a lot more easily. And sometimes like say a woman has

34:56

hormonal imbalance, like it's gonna be much easier if their hormones are balanced to be able to have those emotional, that emotional ease and steps forward and vice versa. So it's different and oh my gosh, yes, if we had an answer to that, how long it takes, I'm sure many people would love that. But it's hard to believe, it's hard to, you know, you don't see somebody really.

35:22

like being open and willing to make these changes and go through this emotional healing and nervous system healing for too long without having some results, you know? Yeah. Definitely. It's kind of like with any healing, like Leslie said, sometimes it's dramatic, but a lot of times it's like, oh, I went two days without symptoms and now it's back. Okay.

35:51

So let's see how long you go the next time. Or let, you know, and it's like, it builds on itself. And so, yeah, I wish there were one specific answer, but I think when people do start implementing this and practicing it, their experience of relief and feeling a difference in the moment can be quite quick, but the building those new pathways so that they can then count on that and have it last for longer.

36:21

that takes a little more time. Yeah, I finally implemented. Oh, go ahead, Leslie. Well, I was gonna say also, sometimes people just aren't ready, you know, for emotional healing and it just feels too hard because they're feeling too crummy. And so they would prefer to focus on the physical things that they can do first. And then they kind of get to a place where they're like, okay, now what's left, I'm ready for this now.

36:50

Yeah, it's great that you're negotiating that because I think that's really important. Oftentimes I do the same thing with food, even though I consider food to be an incredibly important tenant. There are some people who are like, yeah, changing my diet right now is too stressful for me. It's like, okay, we won't do that right now. But when you have more energy, are you willing to do it? They're like, yes. They'll be like, okay. So yeah, so I think that that's really important. And I think also,

37:18

people have to get to a point sometimes, unfortunately, where they feel so badly that they're willing to do anything, right? And so when I tell them, and we talked about this offline, when I tell them that we don't know if your nervous system dysfunction is 10% of the issue or 90% of the issue, they're a lot more likely to do it. And that's something that took me a while to realize, but we recently implemented a nervous system practice schedule in our program because I consider it to be that important. It's not a deep dive, but.

37:48

you know, it's just really essential and people get better faster. They're able to tolerate supplements better. Like everything, you know, everything works better. Wild, I know. We see it. It's amazing. Oh, that's so great. That's wonderful you've woven that in. Yeah, so we've talked about the nervous system dysfunction and why it happens.

38:12

Basically everybody has it. So people listening to this, yes, you do have nervous system dysfunction. You live in this society, you know, you've had parents, siblings, whatever, right? You've interacted with other humans, or if you haven't, you still have it. And we talked about ways to work on it. We talked about the parts work and whatnot. We talked about working in conjunction with your other pillars. Can you list your six pillars for me again? Yes.

38:41

So emotional wellness, nutrition, movement, gut healing, hormone balancing, and mentorship. And that mentorship piece is really where you have someone that knows what the plan is, helps you with the plan, is there to help you through the challenges and the successes, like celebrate your successes, and then also...

39:09

is teaching you why you're doing certain things. Because most people, you know, if they know why, it makes it a lot easier to do. And then it's just really easy. It's just most people that are really successful at something, they have someone on their team that is like coaching them in some capacity. And it just makes it so much more, the chances are so much higher that you're gonna get to the other side or you're gonna get really far if you have that mentorship piece. So.

39:39

We really value that and highly recommend that. Agreed. And what is the difference between a doctor and a mentor? Yeah. Well, you know, so when you're, so there in our society, we have doctor patient relationship, right? And there's kind of a hierarchy there. And what...

40:04

when I say the word mentor, it's someone who is like more like coaching you and is more involved and not just like giving you a script or a pill, but in your lifestyle and teaching you and empowering you, but you're also more involved too. So instead of it being doctor-patient, it's here where you're asked to be involved and show up too and not just go home and take the pill. But

40:31

to actually be doing things and to be doing your nutrition and learning and taking the, knowing that you really are gonna want to be an advocate for your health and become somebody that is also knowledgeable in your health and not just have your doctor know everything but become somebody that really understands what they need and can really have that tool and skills so that

41:01

so you can be in control of your health. And that feels good to be in control of your health, to have the, you know, you can't control everything, but there are a lot of things that you can control. So just being willing to be involved like that. Anyway, the relationship is here and it's really, it's just cool. You know, it's more of an equal partnership.

41:21

Nice, well said. And it's not just, I mean, obviously that person benefits. I tell them it's like getting a master's degree in their health, right? Yeah. That's a good one. But then they can go off and then they can help their partners and their kids and their grandkids and their community, right? Because then they have all this knowledge. So they are empowered. Right, and there being that example where it's just like kind of pouring off of them too.

41:48

especially to kids, they see us and that's how they learn the most from us is by witnessing what we're doing. So true, right? It's that modeling. Yeah, I apologize all the time to my 16 year old and consequently she apologizes to me. Oh, isn't that a beautiful side effect of that? I mean, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yes, you know that experience too. Yeah, definitely. That's great.

42:18

Yeah. All right, great. Well, this has been really amazing. So let me just, you guys, that free gift that you talked about is the, say it again, the- Micro Moment Reset. Awesome. The audio, yeah. Awesome. And then the best website to go to, we're gonna drop these links below, but is it the wate and then the book link.

42:47

Yeah, the book link can be found on Dr. EmilyColwell.com or on Amazon Barnes & Noble bookstores. Nice, everywhere you get your favorite books. You got it. Right. Awesome. Well, is there anything that you want to leave our audience with at this point? This has been wonderful. Well, it's been a lot of fun. And if anybody is in need of some support and

43:16

Emily and I can be of service. We do have a complimentary 15 minute discovery call. We have that on our website. You can get scheduled for that at wate And yeah, we'd be happy to know how we can help. Yeah, and I highly encourage people to take advantage of that because you really need that time with a practitioner to get a sense about whether or not you're gonna be a good fit. So true, so true.

43:43

So go check it out if you're resonating with the team today or the doctors. I mean, you guys are virtual or are you, I know you're in Asheville, but are you able to see people all over the place?

43:59

Yes, so we practice locally in Asheville, but we also practice virtually too. Excellent, wonderful. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on today. It's been wonderful. I really appreciate all that you've shared. So great to be on. Thanks for having us. Thank you, Evan, and thank you for having this resource out there for people.

44:22

So if you have chronic fatigue, whether it's from long COVID or chronic fatigue syndrome, go ahead and click the link below to watch my latest masterclass where I go deep into our four step process that has helped thousands of others resolve their symptoms naturally. After you watch that video, if you're interested in seeing if we're a good fit to work together, you can then get on a free call with me. All right. Thanks so much.