How Decreasing EMFs Can Increase Energy Levels with Nicolas Pineault

Episode 101:

How Decreasing EMFs Can Increase Energy Levels with Nicolas Pineault and Evan H. Hirsch, MD

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  00:04

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the energy MD podcast where as you know, we help people with chronic fatigue MECFS, long COVID and M casts so that you can find and fix all your real root causes of your issues and resolve them. So one of those root causes that we're going to be talking about today is going to be with my friend Nicholas Pineau. Did I say that right? Yeah. Okay, great to know. And so let's learn a little bit about Nick. So he is the EMF guy. And he is the number one best selling author of the non tinfoil guide to EMFs, and an advocate for safe technologies. Through his unconventional approach, blending humor, science and common sense. He's becoming a leading voice on the topic of electromagnetic pollution and how it affects our health. For the last few years, Nick has been interviewing some of the best minds on health and technology, and facilitating the creation of courses and educational material to raise awareness on this very important issue. Nick, thank you so much for joining me today.

Nicolas Pineault  01:07

Thanks so much for having me.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  01:11

So we're going to be talking about how people can increase their energy by decreasing the EMFs in their life. But let's take a step back and like the big picture, make sure we're all on the same page here. Um, how do you define EMFs?

Nicolas Pineault  01:25

Well, I define EMF and we're really talking about human made EMFs. Right, we need natural EMFs to thrive, including sunshine, various, of these rays are visible, various are also invisible. And yet we are, you know, we are highly beneficial. And I think with the vitamin D research that just came out in the last four years alone, I think most of the world has been convinced that if you don't get regular sunshine, you might get in trouble twice. Now we're talking about changing the electromagnetic spectrum to communicate in the form of manmade EMFs. One very popular thing that is increasing very fast is radiofrequency radiation emitted by your phone, Wi Fi, Bluetooth. That's one kind and this is the most studied kind of manmade exposure. And what is the next set of prevalent thoughts in health agencies. And even among most people you would talk to these days, even among most MDS would be that these exposures are perfectly safe, because these are non ionizing exposure. And then repeat this mantra of non ionizing is safe, non ionizing is safe. Well, we already know that this is incorrect, because if you take light, for example, you can have ionizing light in the UV spectrum. Some of it is visible, some of it isn't visible, if I recall correctly. But we know that certain light frequencies are non ionizing, and yet they can disrupt circadian rhythm. So these people that keep repeating a mantra nine, nine Ising is, you know, it's completely safe, simply haven't caught up to the science of the last few decades, especially the last decade alone on circadian rhythm and light exposure. We know that's incorrect. And we know this is equally incorrect when it comes to radiofrequency that we cannot see. And yet it impacts us because it can lead to different cellular changes. And some of them directly impact on mitochondria as well. Yeah,

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  03:36

so let's get into that in just a second here. So EMF stands for electromagnetic frequency, is that correct?

Nicolas Pineault  03:42

Yeah, electric electromagnetic field. Some of them are fields, some of them not, but electromagnetic frequencies. And sometimes I use the term electro pollution. That's not a, you know, a scientific term. But I think that many people can grasp that. We're introducing a new agent in the environment. It's a form of pollution. And pollution says it right. It's the last you're exposed, the better off you are.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  04:09

And so you refer to a couple of these already, like Wi Fi and Bluetooth. What are some of these other fields? Sure,

Nicolas Pineault  04:18

cell phones, Wi Fi, Bluetooth, smart meters, and anything that can be connected wirelessly. These are exposures in the radio frequency category of frequencies, and it ranges widely. It's a little bit under one gigahertz up to if you go in 5g exposures that use millimeter waves, it could be up to I guess 70 To 80 to 90 gigahertz in the in that are used in certain applications, such as car radars, for example, or certain alarm systems. But we also have exposures in the lower frequencies just household electricity, for example, also can have a biological effect, and especially so Oh, if there are wiring errors in certain households leading to overexposure compared to the average population, but they'd say there are different ways to think, think about these exposures. But generally speaking, the goal is to is to minimize minimize all of these fields, including household electricity in some of these fields are more well studied than others. But all of them are within let's say, the building biology framework, which is these professionals that take professional level meters, and try to apply the ALARA principle to this radiation, which stands for as low as reasonably achievable, which is a principle very well understood in nuclear radiation. Because of course, if you get a nuclear radiation exposure for medical purposes, or even X rays, for that matter, we know that it comes with risks, but it comes with a benefit, like seeing what's happening in the bone or with a fracture. But when it comes to these non ionizing exposure, at the moment, it's anything go. So we have to understand that when I'm talking about these, these risks, it's really in a framework of trying to minimize all our exposures because the the, especially when they don't provide benefits, like keeping the Wi Fi open at night, you're not using it, you're not, you know, it had it serves no purpose, and yet, you're still exposed, that would be a perfect example of a completely avoidable and completely useless exposure that we're getting these days. And

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  06:36

it's cumulative. So all of these, you know, these exposures accumulate and then end up causing health issues. So you mentioned radio frequency, so is this the same as like the radio that people listen to in their car, radio

Nicolas Pineault  06:51

waves are a little bit below these exposures. However, you know, these, the radiofrequency radiation in particular has been, it contains the radio waves and TV waves, but, and there are concerns over those as well, it contributes, it will, you know, contribute to the overall exposure of someone, but it's not like we've been multiplicate eating the amount of TV or radio antennas in the last decades. At one point, you know, it peaked. And then, you know, we have enough radio waves to be able to listen to the radio. And now radio is you know, most people are listening to satellite these days and, and podcasts. And so it's even a technology that is deprecated. So for that reason, it's not our fastest growing type of exposure. When it comes to radio frequency, though, why is it one that I tend to focus on is that, well, Wi Fi is getting stronger and stronger. For example, Bluetooth, more and more people are using wearables and using Bluetooth in their ear closer and closer to their body. And then the Bluetooth devices are also increasing in power, at least it's it is true of the last decade, the the increased to power, such as some Bluetooth devices, you can actually connect to, you know, your earbud at 30 feet plus. And that's not very useful is it I mean, as if you, you need to keep your phone in one room and be at the other side of town and still and still connect to it. So so it's really, it, these, these rules are so permissive that we're fast increasing our global exposure to radiofrequency, and then there's also the cell towers. And I would say that aspect is very concerning, because these are mostly unavoidable exposure. And also, exposures that you know, citizens are cannot impose, you live in one spot, and it just happens to be where they put the new 5g Tower. And it turns out that the angle is wrong and all this signal goes into your bedroom. There's almost nothing you can do about that exposure on a on a legal standpoint at the moment. And we have good indications that it can lead to a rapid degradation in that person's health. So it's really the increase and then the increase in proximity and the increase in intensity in this radio frequency band that is the most concerning athletes right now. In 2024.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  09:22

Yeah, about two years ago, I started having a problem having problems sleeping. And I had never had that issue before in my life. I was always a very good sleeper. Even when I had chronic fatigue, I could always sleep. But then all of a sudden I started waking up and I didn't know whether or not it was from spike protein whether I got I had gotten COVID And that was messing with my sleep. But then it turns out that there was also a smart meter that was put on some a water unit that was like outside my window. And I did I did cover it up. We'll get more into I guess treatment in a bit but I did cover up with like a Faraday cage sort of thing. sort of environment. And that seemed to help a little bit, it's still not perfect. But I'll be curious to kind of hear what you have to say about about assessment more in a little bit. But I think that that cell tower idea is very interesting. A lot of times people will all of a sudden start to have issues sleeping, and they don't know why. So it's really important to kind of take a look at all of these different potential changes that are happening. In terms of building biologists, do all building biologists cover EMFs? Or are they able to come in and assess for EMFs properly and make recommendations? Yes,

Nicolas Pineault  10:35

generally all building biologists that are certified, we'll tackle EMFs. And some of them also have the full certification for air quality mold. And some of them, you know, looking at radon and different types of chemicals inside a home. So oftentimes, you know, all these all these exposures in different category of environmental toxicities also tend to be cumulative, in a sense, where people that can become sensitized to an agent are also sensitized to another agent. And oftentimes, it's not just one problem, I had a good talk on my 2024 summit that I think we'll talk about at the end, but with Dr. Neil Nathan, is become becoming a real expert in the field in the treatment of what he calls sensitive patients, he told me, Nick, it's, it's almost impossible to find a patient that is EMF sensitive, that isn't also sensitive to at least several foods, or other agents in the environment. So it's not just one issue that you have. But emf in the mix can be sometimes the cause or just one of the factors that is pushing you over the edge or preventing proper healing. So this is really where I think in that's just a personal hypothesis, I guess. But I think one of the worst things about EMS is what you mentioned the effect on sleep. Because if you have a chronically ill patient, or even a healthy person, and you impair their sleep in one way or another, I think that you're impacting that person's ability to thrive on a on a deep level, especially if that person has a strong reaction to, let's say, a new phone that they were putting under the pillow or maybe an environmental exposure in the sense that has been something that's been installed close to their home, they don't see it, they don't smell it, but they don't realize what's happening. And their sleep is directly impacted. And then night after night, the compounding effect of that is quite profound.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  12:39

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, that I have seen quite a few times where the when we start to remove the accumulation of toxins that are in the body, that people get less sensitive to EMF. So by removing heavy metals and chemicals, and molds, and infections, all of those things that you know that total body burden ends up decreasing that reactivity to EMFs. And so that's, that's one of the ways that I have found a treated but and then also utilizing some magnesium in order to kind of like block some of the calcium channel blockers, calcium channels that the EMFs are using, what other and we'll kind of jump jumping right into treatment, but what other treatments, at least. I guess non technology treatments are kind of like overview, big picture treatments. Before we get into some of the technologies that we can use. What are some of the treatments that you see?

Nicolas Pineault  13:35

For sure. Dr. Neil Nathan, for example, told me things that were brand new to me when I first heard them, he really told me that the vagus nerve, and then the limbic brain if you have these two systems that are healed, so by sometimes it's you know, there's different things that are done for to stimulate the vagus nerve and, and try to tone it or and I might not have the right the right, the right explanation here, but treating the vagus nerve system, and then retraining the limbic brain and part of it is there's the Annie Hopper program. And there's also the Gupta program that are available. These are two different approaches, but they are basically neural retraining, that that can change the I think the reptilian brains reaction to these fields, because once it gets sensitize, it's as if it is an overreaction, but it is one that the person cannot control. So what can you do if you become become hyper sensitized to EMS and you still live inside the city, you get triggered every second. So it becomes you know, a circle were getting better is almost out of reach for you. And it's very, very difficult if you do not if you aren't able to to calm down this system so that Dr. Neil Nathan also mentioned the importance of treating underlying infections. You mentioned in particular Lyme and the coinfection Bartonella. But it will vary from patient to patient. So, again, it's it's it's not there's no cookie cutter approach really to lowering sensitivity, but sometimes it is the toxification. Sometimes it is even, you know, physical manipulations, cranial sacral work, for example, but it's really depends on another scientist, Dr. Magda has told me in the summit, that there are she, she also talks to a lot of different doctors that treat electro hypersensitive. And she told me that it really depends on what kind of trauma patients experience that increase their sensitivity. And many people can pinpoint that after a whiplash following a traffic accident, they got sensitive, or they got, you know, poisoned in the scope of their professional work by pesticides. And after these years, they became hypersensitive. So if it's an EMF trigger, treating the EMF environment is a priority. If it's a chemical trigger, sometimes the detoxification is more of a priority compared to EMFs. So it's really taking a patient's history, and following what seemed to have triggered that sensitivity, it looks like almost all the roads lead to Rome, and also all the roads can lead to electro sensitivity, you can get sensitized in many ways. And it's not just by being overexposed to EMFs. It could be mold exposure, for example, in which case, maybe mold remediation in that case might be even more of a priority compared to EMF remediation. And so it's really, I would say, you know, finding the root cause of what seemed to have pushed a person over the edge, and of course, trying to minimize EMS, but while treating also these underlying root causes.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  17:00

Yeah, well said, I've studied with Neil as well as with Magda, and those are definitely wise words. I'm glad you brought up that information around the limbic system retraining with the Annie Hopper, DNRs program, the Gupta program. And then there's a new one, there's the biology of trauma, and then there's also primal, something, which is a newer one. But yeah, I've seen those be very helpful for people who have mast cell are in fact, more sensitive. I think those are definitely good ideas. And in terms of Yeah, I just wanted to comment also on that, like total mass effect, and I love, I love the or, you know, it's always this combination of fixing the environment, you know, whether there's mold in the environment, or whatever. And then also fixing kind of like what's going on inside your body? Right? So and in my experience, people who have chronic fatigue, the more and more that I do this work, the more I realize is that they all have a combination of the heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, and EMFs. It's not a question and those are all the root causes. So it's a combination of those in different quantities. It's it's no longer for me a question of whether or not which one of those they have, they have all of them, and all of them are contributing, unfortunately, at this point, and that's kind of like how they get to the point of fatigue. So let's talk a little bit about how EMFs contribute to fatigue. So how do they affect I guess, the mitochondria?

Nicolas Pineault  18:28

Yeah, you know, Dr. Pol, here, ru, h e r o u x is from Dr. A, is a professor in McGill University in Montreal. And II directly studied how the mitochondria are impacted by EMFs. And he said that in their presentation a few years ago, I was reviewing it just this week. And he said that if there's a voltage change of plus or minus 2%, at the mitochondrial level, then you have the cell has to adapt, and the cell takes up to three to four weeks to go back to optimal functioning. And that was quite revealing. He said that it takes you know, that much time for to sell to adapt. And many people ask me, you know, Nick, what if EMS could be a hormetic stressor, in a sense that you get EMF exposure from your phone, and then you recuperate, and then we become, you know, more radiation resistant? And that's a cool idea. But it's like saying, Well, if you immerse yourself in ice water for 24 hours per day, or will you get you know, stronger? No, it will be too much because your exposure is all the time. So unfortunately for EMS, if we have if the mitochondria and the cells have to adapt their functioning to this new outside environment that they perceive, and I'm talking about electro pollution, the and it takes three to four weeks to adapt every time it changes and it changes every second, then it never adapts and that's really How he perceives it. And what he says is that, you know, EMFs over time directly impair the mitochondria, his ability to produce energy efficiently. And he said that what happens is that over time, you become less and less efficient, and will increase the amount of oxidative stress that you're creating in the process of energy production. So how I perceive it, and I'm, you know, as a non scientist, and not not formally educated, I perceive it as the fuel is getting created the same, except now it's running dirty, and there's more trash that is produced, you know, more black smoke coming out of your car kind of thing, as the engine is becoming less and less efficient. So, you know, raising mitochondrial energy through different means, including, you know, increasing your reserve, your resilience over time, seems to make people less sensitive as well. So for me, for example, I used to get brain fog whenever I was on Wi Fi. And I had underlying Epstein Barr Virus infections and a lot of gut issues and several different things that I work with with a functional practitioner. And over time, especially one summer where I was working on different protocols for viral load, and different things that are true for me for my body, then I felt all of a sudden, I was working on Wi Fi and feeling fine. So it's very subjective, but it tends, you know, once you, you increase your resilience by different different strategies that work for you, it looks like now you're able to still produce energy, even in the midst of EMFs. And I think that what what we need to think about is, how resilient are your bio electrical sensors and your bio electrical components in your body. So if we think about EMFs, as you know, global noise or disruption in the terms in the sense that this is electricity that's coursing all over the place that is completely random, that contains information that is non biological, and it is noise to your cells into your mitochondria. If you have a small resilience to noise, then you easily get disrupted, and maybe your mitochondrial voltage will go up or down of 2%. And then you will see a change in energy production. But if you are very resilient, and you've built that tolerance, then maybe you can handle that just fine. And I think a lot of people these days, can still handle to this day, these exposures just fine, except that over time, then maybe you know, as they reach a different age, and as their mitochondrial capacity will go down or do mitochondrial populations per cell, then eventually they just hit that wall.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  22:57

Now, and for those who aren't familiar mitochondria is found in every cell in the body except for red blood cells and produces about 70 9070 to 90% of our energy or ATP. It seems like there's quite a few Canadians who are kind of big into the EMF stuff. We've got you we've got this Dr. Hurco, we've got Magda have us right, she's Canadian right now, it's wonderful work that you guys are all doing. So let's get into testing. So how does somebody know whether or not they have an EMF issue in their home and with their phone and etc? Yeah,

Nicolas Pineault  23:36

well, I think that regardless of any testing, or measuring device, you have, just using distance between your body and different devices is kind of the first line of defense. And, and also decreasing the duration that you're exposed to these, these different machines. So not without even testing if you hit the airplane mode button at night, you're doing something good. If you you're hitting that airplane mode button whenever you put your phone near your body for example, in a pocket or I see people in the shirt pocket or bra and yoga pants, you know, right next to your genitalia. It's it's not a good use of the technology. And these are what what these are a case examples that will expose you to the greatest amounts of EMS. If you have a measuring device. One that I recommend on my website is called the SEM pro tech 33. But there are a lot of good devices out there try field, the cornet there are different brands. And if you take a device, it's not like these devices will help you quantify your environment because these readings are not very precise. However, they help you figure out what is emitting these EMFs for example, wireless, I go to a hotel room while I'm on a business trip. And there's this alarm clock right there and I see the sign In Bluetooth, and I take my measuring device and I say, Well, I don't want to connect to Bluetooth, I have no intention of using Bluetooth tonight during my sleep. And I don't want to use Bluetooth. And I think the measuring device on wireless, and I hear Bluetooth. So it means that this machine is emitting a signal looking for my phone or looking for a phone, that it can connect to 24/7. So what do I do as a result, I unplugged the machine and call it the day. So I've mitigated this machine, and therefore I'm not exposed to it during my sleep. So really these devices, I see them as detectors rather than, you know, tools to quantify the environment. If you want to quantify the environment, I would hire a building biologist or EMF consultant, because they are you know, engineers that have been trained to use tools that are more scientifically accurate. The average meter you can get for $300 or under is not precise enough to do real quantification, but at least it will give you a ballpark idea of different exposures, you will realize that, you know, the computer is on Wi Fi, the computer is high, it reads in the red zone, for sure. But at the same time, I see a lot of confusion. And it comes with downsides. A lot of people take these devices and you know, they will read things like electrical fields. Well, of course, electrical fields will emanate from any wall from anything that is electrical. So maybe people will think, you know, oh, my microphone is dangerous. My TV screen is dangerous. This thing. Everything is dangerous, right? Well, no, it just tells you that these are leading to electrical exposures, and they are cumulative. So it doesn't tell you exactly what is the worse or what to do about it. So for some people, I've steered away personally from recommending measuring devices for everyone, I recommend them for people that are a little bit more advanced, or maybe are feeling chronically ill and want to a rapid way of you know, assessing their environment, or maybe you're on the move and you bring them to to your hotel room and try to find sources, that's a good use, but it can lead to massive confusion as well. So if you're already anxious over EMFs, I would just you know, start eliminating sources, especially during the night, and then hire a professional that can give you a clearer idea of these exposures. For example, if you have an amateur level meter, yours are exposing you in your living room. This is this is a job for a professional meter with a very large antenna. So these are tools that can have a directional reading to them, these amateur level readers would read a general average of the environment, so a wouldn't be very the very appropriate tool to read cell towers, for example.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  27:58

Okay. And so you know, one of the things you mentioned was turning the Wi Fi off at night. Are there you know, we do that and we have like a timer, where we have things plugged in, are there other things you know, computers, TVs, the router? What are the things that you recommend turning off at night?

Nicolas Pineault  28:21

Well, I would say anything that is in your bedroom, and for some people, it is a TV, a computer, two cell phones, one per nightstand, if you have a significant other, it might be sensors also some people install, you know, Bluetooth alarm clock. So it can be in fact, some people have 10 to 15 devices in their bedroom. So depends on how how smart your home is. And really smart here is, you know, almost, it's almost a hidden word that signifies signifies wireless, in many cases. So you have you have really to look at your bedroom as a safe haven where it should, you should not have these wireless exposures should put phones in the next room or turn them off or, or put us airplane mode and make sure that Wi Fi and Bluetooth are turned off. And this is really the first level of mitigation. And I would say the second place you'll want to look at is where you actually spend time many people make the mistake of saying well, you know what, have this Bluetooth speaker and it's in my garage and is it a problem? Well, do you spend time next to this that speaker and many people don't think about that, but that's a factor. If you don't spend time there near your, you know, your VitaMix and these other exposures. It's not an issue. Some people take the EMF reader and say, Oh, my God, the Vitamix is spinning and it's a very large motor so therefore it's creating a large magnetic field. Yes it is. But are you really spending time in front of it because one is loud and two, it will take a minute or two to you know, bless And anything you have to blend, so it's not an exposure that matters. What matters most is your workstation, your favorite sofa, your spot at the kitchen table, maybe your kitchen, if you're someone who cooks a lot, you know, so think about where you're actually spending time. And this is where you should aim to have a minimal exposure, very close to your body. So sometimes they it might, it might mean, you know, even turning off Wi Fi, if you don't use it, that's something that some people do if they work at home. And you can, in fact, you can also wire up your computer. And in the case of the most sensitive patients, these are steps, just merely turning off Wi Fi, sometimes it's not enough, because some of them cannot live with Wi Fi in the home. So they can go in the admin settings of the router, turn off Wi Fi entirely, and then use a cable to connect there are different devices. And building biologists can help with that. And you can even hire an IT company to have these ethernet cables all over the home, I think in the future, we're going to see that more in a lot of homes, or even a new standard that might come on the market is that there will be there will be Ethernet capabilities in each outlet with USBC. And that's something the industry is moving towards in smart homes. And I think that there's there's only so, so much so many devices that are wireless that you can install before the noise is so high in your environment that even the sensors start malfunctioning. And we see that with Wi Fi routers where people are now with facing a hard choice, their router used to be okay. But now with the increasing noise in cities, if they have to upgrade it to a stronger and stronger router, as if you know, all the machines are screaming louder on top of each other, it's just that the noise is becoming overwhelming. So what I recommend people is you know, if your Wi Fi is poor, maybe you could upgrade it. But you know, having an Ethernet cable running to your computer is a great way to have stable signal that is EMF free. And you can of course, if you use a cable to connect your router to your computer, you should also turn off the Wi Fi on your computer because it's not something that will be done automatically.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  32:25

Yeah, and it's called hard wiring. And generally you can contact your electrician and they will they will drop the wire throughout the home. That's all really good advice. The other thing too, is also the smart meters. So you know one of the things that we didn't realize was that you know, we had a smart meter by our bedroom right off of our bedroom. And then we had another smart meter that was right off of where we sit to watch TV. Right so it's important I think for people to assess those as well. The interesting thing about Bluetooth and exposures to as you're talking about kind of this volume of screaming is that we're we're getting more and more forced into utilizing some of these things you know, like phones are now so many of them come without a three and a half millimeter jack. Right so you know in making sure that you're using wired ways and and hopefully using some EMF, do you think those EMF headsets actually work?

Nicolas Pineault  33:27

Some of them are air tubes headsets that that don't you know conduct electricity up to the ear. I've heard some hypersensitive people tell them tell me that yes, they it makes them less sensitive. But I think you know it's it's not a priority purchasing those. If you have something wired You're doing great. If you want to use the air tubes, I think that's probably an upgrade over the regular ones. But there's something something else you can use this called the H AR D hard from shield your body. And it's basically something you put inside your audio jack and then you will put your headphones in that little gizmo it's hard to explain but it's a filter. So it will filter any emissions that would go up the wire. And it's an alternative that permits you to still use your your wired headphones that are of higher quality compared to air tubes I found with air tubes that they tend to be poorly fitting in my ear and that's just a personal thing. But also the sound is of very low quality generally so So for people that like to listen to music or do other activities with their headphones, it's not really a good replacement. So I'd say avoid Bluetooth at all costs in your ear. To me, it's just, you know, the data we have on on emails being dangerous, because they might increase your risk. a brain tumor is very concerning. But if you replace a phone with a Bluetooth earpiece that is even deeper into your brain, we don't have much data about Bluetooth. But that's that's the point. The point is, okay, well, let's wait for Bluetooth data in 40 years. And then we're going to say, oh, yeah, it turns out it was equally bad. I mean, yeah, for sure. It's, it's, you know, the radiofrequency radiation in the first place, is a carcinogen. And it's, it's a matter of time before it is recognized as such. So let's not play games here. And I don't think it's, it's great advice to wear Bluetooth anything on your body for extended periods of time.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  35:42

Yeah, it's a great idea. And so then, in terms of the the cases, cases, for cell phones, you know, I have taken a trifield meter, I do have a safesleeve. And I have kind of done like, before and after and covered it up and made phone calls and stuff like that. And it seems like they work. Do you have some of those cases that you have found that work particularly? Well? Yes,

Nicolas Pineault  36:06

I, you know, first thing is, if you use a case, still don't use it to the ear, because these cases tend to be imperfect. And they might still leak radiation in certain angles. So when it comes to cases is difficult, because it really depends on how you're using them. Many people will use like safe sleeve and open it and have the back flap, and then Amin take a call. So you're not really protecting yourself or you forget to close it. So there's a lot of ways to get it wrong. And for that reason that one of the brands I recommend is shield your body. But they don't do you know, this flap model, they don't believe that this is the right way to engineer a case. And instead they have just one, one side that is shielded. And one side that is not. So it's just a case that you would use to put a phone in your pocket. In other words, it would just deflect the radiation away from your body. And it would, you know, deflect it towards the exterior, I think that's a great way to use it. An even better way to deal with is just airplane mode when you carry your phone twice. Simply this is what I do accept many people, you know, need to be on call for their job, their attorneys there, they have responsibilities or they want to be on call. Okay, I understand it. And in which case, using a case, I think it's it's a decent solution. We should not live under the illusion that these mitigation strategies are perfect, though. So they don't mitigate all the health effects. But I think you know, insert in a context where you understand that these are imperfect solutions, it's perfectly fine to consider using them.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  37:44

Okay, and then real quick, I've got two more things I want to ask you about. And I want to get to hearing about your Summit. In terms of the the smart meters, what do you recommend on those,

Nicolas Pineault  37:59

either getting the the meter replaced with an analog one, which is not always possible, depending on your city or your state or your country. So it depends on which what laws are in place, if you can get it replaced, is through getting the opt out program. So calling the company saying I want to opt out the Smart Meter program and they replace it. Sometimes they might even charge you a monthly fee for having done so. So sometimes it's quite hefty. So it discourages many people. If you cannot do that, put a smart meter cover on top of it, which can dampen the radiation in emit. So like you've done I think that's a decent solution to consider.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  38:41

Okay, and then why tell us why 5g is not one of the top EMFs that people have to worry about?

Nicolas Pineault  38:49

Well, you know, because everything is cumulative. And there are many other exposures. A lot of people, you know, worry about 5g, but they forget that the 4g LTE antennas that are still in place sometimes are even worse. It really depends on your location. So 5g is just one of the many types of EMS we're exposed to. It is important to talk about it but I felt like in many situations, it took over the entire discussion as if you know, EMF is 5g. No EMF is all men, media males, they are each cumulative and contribute to your overall exposure. And in certain places. 5g has not been rolled out. But it does not mean that the exposures that you're getting right now that are non 5g Are any safe. So it's really, you know, all of the studies we have are even on technologies that are older. Most of the studies have been done on 2g and 3g. Imagine so we have to keep that in mind. And keep in mind that our ability to roll out new technologies is is much faster than our ability to study their health impacts.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  39:57

So Nick, tell us about your Summit. It's called EMF how Right,

Nicolas Pineault  40:00

is the 2024 EMF hazard Summit, it will be from April 11 to 14th. And this time it's focused on electro sensitivity. So it's really perfect for someone that might suspect that, you know, my symptoms might have something to do with EMS, what are the top symptoms? And what do top practitioners such as Dr. Nathan or Dr. Eric Gordon, tell you about how to recover from these EMF sensitivities. So it's really, it will be really revealing to a lot of people. And we also have Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, who talks about the policies around these things. And you know, do you have rights as someone electro sensitive? So these are big questions that we explore with attorneys, EMF mitigation specialists, and also EMF scientists, including Dr. Magda habas this year. Wonderful.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  40:49

sounds excellent. We'll drop all those links below. I highly encourage people to go check it out.

Nicolas Pineault  40:55

Thank you so much.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  40:58

Thank you, thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate all this. The the work that you're doing in the world is really, really, really important. So thanks for sharing your knowledge with us today.

Nicolas Pineault  41:09

Thank you so much. I hope we provided a lot of value. Thank you. Absolutely.

Evan H. Hirsch, MD  41:16

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