How an Unhealed Betrayal Impacts your Energy with Debi Silber - #119

How an Unhealed Betrayal Impacts your Energy with Debi Silber

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Hey everybody, welcome back to the EnergyMD podcast where we help you resolve your chronic fatigue, ME-CFS, MCAS and long COVID so that you can live the life of your dreams. If you've followed me for some time, you know how important I believe that working on the mental emotional health is in achieving resolution to your symptoms. So really excited today because we're going to be talking with my friend Debi Silber. Dr. Debi, as she's known.

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and let's learn a little bit about her and post-betrayal syndrome. So Dr. Debi Silber founder of the PBT post-betrayal transformation Institute and national forgiveness day celebrated annually on September 1st. It's coming up. Market calendars is an award winning speaker and a two time number one international bestselling author. Her podcast from betrayal to breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts.

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A recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. We're gonna go into those today. In addition to being on Fox, CBS, the Dr. Oz show, TEDx twice and more, she's dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks, preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence and happiness they want most. Debi, thanks so much for joining me today.

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Thank you for having me on this amazing show again. Looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, I'm excited. Last time we did this was about four years ago. And so I'm super excited about diving in again. I know that I'm constantly learning and I know you are as well. So it'll be interesting how this conversation differs from last time we did this. So let's talk about, let's dive into betrayal. So what is it? A lot of people don't necessarily, they may have different opinions about what it is.

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What is betrayal? You know, I define it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule and every relationship has them. And the way it works is the more we trust and the more we depend on that other person, the deeper the betrayal. So for example, a child who's completely dependent on their parent, that's gonna have a different impact than your best friend sharing your secret, your coworker taking credit for your idea. Still betrayals, different level of cleanup left in the wake. And then,

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You know, one of the things that we see a lot is people feeling betrayed by their bodies. You know, now they have chronic fatigue syndrome or long COVID or something, and they were always able to function at a certain level, but now they've got brain fog or body pain or they're fatigued all the time. Can you have that sort of betrayal within yourself? You know, there are so many people that come our way and they say, I don't get it. I've been eating well. I've been exercising. I've been doing everything I'm supposed to do. And I got this disease or I got this illness.

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And they do, they absolutely feel betrayed by the body. And so much of this is there's in the betrayal world, so much mental and emotional anguish going on that by the time something, when you're dealing with that for so long, the body can't help but take a hit. And we see that so often in the symptoms of post betrayal syndrome. So we can get into that and every, whatever else you wanna talk about.

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So yeah, so betrayal is a stressor, right? And so, and it's a mental, emotional stressor and a physical stressor, you know, when you have any sort of stressor, it ends up compromising how the hormones are working and all that. So let's dive into the three discoveries that you made in your study, please share. Yeah, sure. Well, you know, think about it, betrayal is, it has this profound impact on the body, the mind, the heart. I mean, this was the person or these were the people.

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gave us a sense of safety and security. So when this is the person or the user of the people to take that very sense of safety and security away, it's absolutely traumatizing. So the first, and of course, you know, you don't study something like betrayal because you like the topic, you know, you said it because you have to, and that was the case with me. So I had my betrayals. It led me to this PhD program because there wasn't a book, there wasn't a program, there wasn't a course.

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I just needed to understand how the mind works, why people do these things and how I can heal. I mean, I had four kids, six dogs, a business. I couldn't afford to just kind of, you know, lay in bed. And no, I had things to do. So I needed a way to heal. And so I dove into this PhD program in transpersonal psychology, psychology of transformation and human potential. And while I was there, I did a study, a study betrayal. And I had no idea.

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I was only hoping to heal, but that study led to the three discoveries. So the first, I had a feeling that betrayal was a different type of trauma. I'd been through death of a loved one, I'd been through disease. And I was like, nope, betrayal feels different. I didn't wanna assume it was the same for everybody else. So I asked them, if you've been through other traumas besides betrayal, does it feel different for you? And unanimously, they said it's so different. And here's why.

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Because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally. So the self, the entire self gets shattered. Rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthiness, trust. So originally I was studying betrayal and post-traumatic growth. And I look at post-traumatic growth as sort of the upside of trauma, how any trauma leaves you with a new awareness, insight, perspective you didn't have. But with betrayal, not only is the invitation

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to rebuild your life, like with post-traumatic growth, but you also have to rebuild the self. So that betrayal is a different type of trauma, thought it needed a new name too. So I coined a new term, post-betrayal transformation. Imagine post-traumatic growth plus rebuilding the self equals post-betrayal transformation. That was the first discovery. Nice. So what was the second discovery? The second?

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was that there's actually this collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayal. It's now known as post-betrayal syndrome. And we've had over 95,000 people take our post-betrayal syndrome quiz to see to what extent they're struggling. And a few things about that, we've all been taught time heals all wounds. Well, I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true. We cannot count on time.

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We can't count on a new relationship to heal betrayal. You know, there's a question on the quiz that says, is there anything else you'd like to share? People write things like, my betrayal happened 35 years ago. I'm unwilling to trust. My betrayal happened 10 years ago. It feels like it happened yesterday. So we know that you cannot count on time or those other relationships. Healing needs to be deliberate and intentional. And if you don't deliberately heal it,

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It will follow you around in your work, in your health, in your relationships. But every so often I pull the stats from the quiz just to see where people land. And I'm happy to share them if that would serve. Please. Okay, so imagine, because that would have been really awkward if you said no. So imagine 95,000 plus people have taken this quiz. Just about every country's represented.

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I'm going to share the statistics, but most importantly, pay attention to these numbers. So out of all of those people, 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel a loss of personal power. 80% are hypervigilant. Think about how exhausting that is right there. 94% deal with painful triggers.

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Now here are the most common physical symptoms. You're gonna love these next few that I'm talking about. 71% have low energy, right? No surprise. 68% have sleep issues. 63% have extreme fatigue. So they sleep all night, they wake up, they're exhausted. 47% have weight changes. So maybe in the beginning they can't hold food down. Later on, they're using food for comfort. They're emotionally eating.

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45% have a digestive issue and that could be anything, Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis, constipation, diarrhea, you name it. The most common mental symptoms, 78% are overwhelmed, 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief, 64% are in shock, 62% can't concentrate. So imagine just that you can't concentrate, you're exhausted, you have a gut issue, you still have to raise your kids.

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You still have to work, right? That's not even emotionally. Emotionally, 88% experience extreme sadness. 83% are very angry. And it's common to bounce back and forth between those two. Imagine how exhausting just that is. Let's see, 80% are hurt, 79 are stressed, just a few more. 84% have an inability to trust. That one just killed me.

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67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again. They put the big wall up. 82% find it hard to move forward. 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how. What's even more staggering about all of those statistics, first of all, you didn't hear me say anything 20%, 30%. These numbers are super high. They're also not necessarily because of a recent betrayal.

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This could be from the parent who did something awful when you were a kid. This could be from the girlfriend or boyfriend who broke your heart in high school. So think about it. That person may not know, care, remember, they may not even be alive. And here we are, walking around decades later with these symptoms because it was left unhealed. The good news is you could heal from all of it. That was the third discovery. But any questions about any of those symptoms?

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Okay, so that was the third one is that you can heal from all of it. Yeah, those happy to share the third discovery if you want. Yeah. Unless you wanted to dive into any of those symptoms. Yeah, I got, I have some questions about those. I mean, I just want to comment on how, how staggeringly high, uh, those numbers are, and probably people are, um, you know, self selecting, you know, because they're going to take that quiz, but still it's really high and, you know, from my lens, one of the things that I see from a significant

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stressor or significant trauma, in this case we're talking about the betrayal, is that it ends up negatively affecting hormones and oftentimes it can cause opportunistic infections. And so sometimes people who never had any sort of fatigue before or brain fog or whatever, sometimes if you have one significant stressful event, whether it's betrayal, whether it's a motor vehicle accident,

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then all of a sudden sometimes infections can become opportunistic and you can get some of those symptoms including anxiety and panic attacks and blah, blah, whatever. So it's such an important issue that I don't think enough people are talking about. So let's dive into how to heal from it because I'm super curious, this is important. And you're gonna see, as I shared the third discovery, where all of these symptoms show up. It starts in a certain.

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and then it just keeps growing and growing. So the third for me was the most exciting. The third discovery and what we learned was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and so many people do, if we're going to fully heal, and by fully heal, I mean those symptoms of post-betrayal syndrome that I just shared to this completely rebuilt place of post-betrayal transformation, we're going to move through five proven, predictable stages.

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And what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at each one of those stages. And we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next. Healing is entirely predictable. Happy to share the stages if you want to hear them. Please. Great. So the first stage is actually before it happens. And if you can imagine four legs of the table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual, what I saw with everybody, me too.

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was a heavy lean on the physical and the mental, thinking and doing, we're so good at that. And kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual feeling and being. Well, if a table only has two legs, it's easy for that table to topple over, that's us. Stage two, shock, trauma, D-Day, discovery day. This is by far the scariest of all of the stages. And here's where you get the news that has forever changed your life. And it's the breakdown of the body.

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the mind and the worldview. So right here, you've ignited the stress response, you're now headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition, disease. This is where a lot of your patients are coming from, your clients. Your mind is in a complete and total state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just learned. This makes no sense. And your worldview has just been shattered. This is your mental model.

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The rules that govern you that prevent chaos, trust this person, don't go here. This is how it works. And in one earth shattering moment or series of moments, every rule you've been holding to be real and true is no longer. The bottom has bottomed out on you and a new bottom hasn't yet been formed. So this is terrifying. I remember a study participant saying, you know what, it felt like every negative emotion you can imagine getting punched in the gut

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and losing a child in a crowd all at the same time. I mean, it's just awful. But think about it, if the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You grab hold of anything or anyone in order to stay safe and stay alive. That's stage three, survival instincts emerge. This is the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can't help me, get out of my way. How do I survive this experience? Who can I trust? Here's the trap though, stage three.

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by far hands down is the most common place we get stuck. And here's why. Once we've figured out how to survive our experience, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where we just came from, we think it's good. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we don't know there's a stage four or stage five, transformation doesn't even begin until stage four. But because we don't know there's anywhere else to go,

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We plant roots here. We're not supposed to, but we don't know that. And four things start to happen. The first thing is we start getting those small self benefits, the secondary gain. We get to be right. We like being right. We get our story. We love our story, right? We get sympathy from everyone we tell our story to. And on some level, you know, we're not getting much else. So we take it. We like that. And so we plant deeper roots. And now because we're here longer than we should be, the mine.

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starts doing things like, well, you know, maybe you're not that great. Maybe you deserved it. Maybe this, maybe that. So we plant deeper roots. And now, because these are the thoughts we're thinking, this is the energy we start putting out. Like energy attracts like energy. So now we start attracting people and circumstances and relationships to confirm this is where we belong. Here's where we're going to have the most symptoms of post-betrayal syndrome.

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Here's where we're going to be medicating and suppressing because all we're doing now is spending our time on a solution because we're not moving past the betrayal. So we're just dealing with all the symptoms. Here's where we will join some lame support group and we will actually sabotage our healing because we don't want to outgrow our people. Here's where...

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We may be healing, but we sabotage our healing because we don't wanna outgrow our betrayer who has no intention of changing. So this is a really, I mean, this is a trap. It's like quicksand. It gets worse, but I'll get you out of here. Because it feels so bad, but we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we need a way just to be able to get through our day. So right here, we start numbing, avoiding, distracting. We start using food, drugs, alcohol, you know, whatever.

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to numb, avoid and distract. So we think about it, we do this for a day, a week, a month, now it's a habit, a year, 10 years, 20 years. And I can see someone 20 years later and say, that emotional eating you're doing, that drinking, that numbing in front of the TV, do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And they'd look at me like I'm crazy. They'd say it happened 20 years ago, but all they did was put themselves in stage three and stay there. Does that make sense? It does.

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And that's why we wind up playing this game of whack-a-mole where it's like, okay, we just sort of tamp down that one symptom only for another to show up. And then we deal with that symptom and then we deal with the next and the next and the next. Here's also where we have repeat betrayals because if nothing changes, nothing changes. And so we're staying in this kind of toxic soup. Anyway, if we're...

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willing, willingness is a big word right here, to let go of the small self benefits, grieve more than the loss to a bunch of things. We move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge, I can't undo what happened, but I control what I do with it. Just in that decision, you're kind of turning down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but at least you stop the massive damage you've been picking up in stages two and stage three.

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Stage four feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever moved to a new house office, whatever, your stuff's not there, it's not quite cozy, I'd be like, okay, we got this. It's this hopeful excitement. But think about it, if you were to move, you don't take everything with you. You don't take the things that you're ready to outgrow that don't represent the version of you. You wanna be in this new space. And what I found was there's a spot when people leave stage three and move into stage four.

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If their friends weren't there for them, they're done. They've outgrown them. That lame support group where you had to sabotage your healing to stay with that group, you're done. The betrayer who has no intention of changing, you understand that and you're done. So there's so many, there are so many changes in relationships as we move into stage four. Anyway, when you've made this space mentally okay and home,

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you move into the fifth most beautiful stage. And this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body is healing, self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise. We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier, now we do. The mind is healing. We're making all kinds of new rules, new boundaries based on the road we just traveled. And we have a new worldview based on our whole experience. And the four legs of that table in the beginning, it was all about the physical and mental. By this point, we're solidly grounded.

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because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages. Thank you. Is forgiveness in any of these stages? Yes. Forgiveness is when we move towards forgiveness too early, it backfires every single time. And of course, forgiveness is just for us. It's not for the other person. Still.

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there's too much anger, we're not ready for it. It just doesn't work early on. So when we're moving into stages four and stage five, it actually catapults your healing because what you're doing is really letting go of all the power that that pain has had over you. And there's even this one activity that we have people do, it's in stage four. It's really powerful. It's called a.

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coherent narrative, just one of the processes we move them through. And here's where you're invited to talk about and to express the benefit of your experience and all you've gained. Now, if I tell somebody and I ask them, tell me the benefit of your betrayal, early on, they're going to want to punch me in the nose. But at a certain point, then that's where people realize I never would have realized how strong I was.

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I never would have known to implement these new boundaries. I never would have realized how lovable worthy I am. All of these things that you see when you're in that space and then when you're working on forgiveness, it's so powerful. Now earlier, because people say, well, I wanna forgive, I'm just not ready. Acceptance is a beautiful first step. But again, you wanna be ready for that.

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for that as well. You know, I remember reading a study when I was doing my study and it was about forgiveness. And they said, when, when you feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel better when you do not feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel worse. And I thought to myself, well, you know, forgiveness is just for us and for our own wellbeing. So what if we change the word forgiveness to rebuild or reconcile? And it would sound like this.

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If you feel safe and valued and you reconcile, you feel better. If you do not feel safe and valued and you reconcile, you feel worse. And that is absolutely the case. There are so many people who rebuild and who reconcile where there have been no changes. So that's where they have those repeat experiences. You know, there were three groups actually in this study who did not heal.

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The first, this was the group, they had their story, they were sticking with it. You know, they were betrayed, that was it, they didn't heal. The second group, this was the group where they ran to the doctor and who put them on a mood stabilizer or anti-anxiety medication, they were numbing in some way, they didn't heal. It may have made the day a bit easier to get through, not without a price. The third group, and it just reminded me when I was just saying that earlier, this was the group where the betrayer had very little consequences. So whether it was out of

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not wanting to break up a family, financial fear, religious reasons, that was a big one. They just did all they could to turn the other cheek, look the other way, and I saw two things with this group. Number one, a further deterioration of the relationship, and two, this group by far was the most sick.

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broken heart just can't handle that. And that was when the betrayer did not have consequences. Exactly. Because they so if nothing changes, nothing changes. And we see this so often, people are so afraid of the death and destruction of the old. That's the only way you birth the new. And just to sort of close the loop on my story, it was the first the betrayal of my family, and then it was my husband. So, you know, with my

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there was no change. So I rebuilt myself and moved along with my husband. That was the end of our marriage. And here I was now, you know, I'm like, I wasn't counting on being a single mom, all these kids, all these dogs, this business, all of this. I mean, that wasn't my plan. But then as to completely transform people, where he completely changed and so did I, we married each other again.

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New rings, new vows, new dress, and our four kids is our bridal party. Never in a bazillion years would I have done anything like that if I didn't move through the five stages myself and see how possible healing is and to see as well for the betrayer how possible healing is on that side as well. So for people who had a betrayal,

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How many people approximately who've gone through your program were still in relationship with that betrayer? You know, we have many. It's every different type, every experience comes our way. Some people want to move through the five stages so that they don't attract the same type of person again. So that's really common as well. But we even, we have a program for the betrayer as well. And we, and these are not the typical.

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betrayers. This is someone who realizes I've just shattered the heart and trust of the very person I love the most, who loves me the most. I mean, this is a person who's willing to do whatever it takes. So they go through our program. The betrayed goes through our program. Their partner, they meet up as two very different people. But there's a wild and wide range. Some they're out of relationship. They want to clean themselves up, get to that stage five. So that

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They don't just keep attracting the same type of person. And some, they want to be in that relationship. But then again, we make no promises because it's not just about, okay, what do we need to do to get you both okay? No, it's a complete and total crash and burn of the old. And sometimes one will outgrow the other, and that's a fear. So they'd rather not. So they keep, you know, just trying to repair and repair and repair.

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and they have more of the same. So instead we say, we have no idea what's gonna show up. We know we're gonna get you to your physical, mental, and emotional best. If that other person does the same, it's a two point-oh relationship. If they don't, you're not gonna be attracted to that person anymore anyway.

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And what is the fear that people have in that case where they don't want to leave the betrayer? Is it that divorce is expensive or what is it generally? It's a lot of fears. It's fear of the unknown. It's fear of change. It's just fear period. Because it's so interesting when I asked them, if you weren't afraid, what would you do? So many of them I'd leave in a minute, whatever it is. And some of them, they're...

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They still love that person, but they're unwilling to be with that person until there's a radical transformation on both sides. And I get that. I mean, that's where I was. So to just sign up for more of the same, I mean, that's crazy. And talk about the health issues you're gonna have if that's the case. But the fear, the fear of, okay, this relationship is over. It's all about my healing now.

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and I have no idea what's going to show up. That's the great unknown. So people are afraid of that. I mean, I've had people come my way who have really asked me just get my mind so that I can be okay with all of their betrayals in the past and going forward. Like that's not the work I do. That's, or any of our certified coaches within the PBT Institute or outside of the PBT Institute.

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this is an opportunity to absolutely, intentionally, and deliberately rebuild yourself. It's almost like, you know, my kids used to love Legos. And imagine there's this Lego structure sitting in the corner. It's not good, it's just there, right? And now all of a sudden it's shattered. All the pieces are all over the place. The invitation here is not to just build what you had. Now you look and you say, do I want this piece? Do I want it like this? I want to make something magnificent. I want to make it, you know, this whole thing that

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never would have had the opportunity to be built had this not happened. We see people in stages four and stage five, incredible new levels of health, new passion projects, new businesses, new relationships with the person who hurt them on a very different level or with someone new. You don't have access to that when you're in stage three sucking your trauma.

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So then how do people get there? I mean, you've kind of taken me through like the five stages, but what are some of the practical steps to doing that? Is there mindset work? Is there meditation? What sort of tools do you use? You know, you need to really address this physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. And one of the reasons why people get so frustrated, like they'll say, well, I've been in therapy for 10 years. We have so many people coming into the PBT Institute with therapy trauma, the most well-meaning therapists.

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But if all you're doing is feeling heard, validated, and understood, and you're re-traumatizing yourself, you're no step closer to that next stage. So if anything solidifies you in stage three, like crazy glue, it's going over the same thing where all you're feeling is heard, validated, understood at the end of it. If you're not moving closer,

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in the way you think, in the way you feel, in your actions, your habits, your behaviors, you're tragically, tragically stuck. But even so, as you're moving forward, the issues are in the tissues as well. We need to handle, get these, there's somatic body-based activities we need to do, definitely rewiring the mindset, working on our confidence and our self-esteem and all the things that were so hard hit, because

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So often we think, what's wrong with me? Why was this done to me? What am I less than unworthy, undeserving? All that needs to be worked on because the truth is it had nothing to do with you. But because it happened to you, we think it's about you. It's not.

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Yeah. Gosh, that's really powerful. And so we've kind of talked about, so people who are listening to this right now and they're thinking, gosh, this all sounds very interesting. What are some of the limiting beliefs that come up for them around this or objections being like, oh, this isn't going to work for me. Yeah. People say things like this is as good as it's going to get. I better get used to it. This is all I deserve.

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I don't want to be the one to break up a family. They take it as if it's them. Meanwhile, they didn't do anything. They weren't the ones who did it. There's so much shame and humiliation. It's like we're in a club we never wanted to be in and we're in it and we just feel this is just, not just that this is an experience, this is who I am. And people don't realize that it's

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This is a launch pad for transformation. There's no guesswork here. It's just, there's a roadmap to move you completely through. But when we're so stuck in believing, well, my relationships have always been like this. Well, of course they have been. Because if nothing has changed in how you think, how you act, how you feel, what you believe, you can only attract more of the same.

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but it's when you look at every single thought that comes into your head and you reassess them. And if it doesn't serve, that's the time where you make these changes. You know, I have a saying, I've been in business over 33 years and it applies, you name the topic, it applies. And it's hard now, easy later. Easy now, hard later. Take your pick, it's going to be one of those two. When it comes to betrayal, healing from betrayal, it is all about hard now.

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easy later. And when I say hard now, I mean, if the old you settled for that, the new you can't. If the old you tolerated something, the new you has to have that boundary and say no. If the old you accepted something, the new you can't. So you are this filtering system where a thought or idea comes up before you say anything, before you do anything. It's got to be

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different than who you were. You're taking all the parts you love, but this is the opportunity to leave behind everything that didn't serve you. Now, people say all the time, well, what do you mean, you know, easy now and hard later? This stinks, I'm in so much pain. Yes, and if you haven't changed any of the behaviors, that's the easy now. So yes, you're in tremendous pain because you're doing the same thing that's leading to the same thing.

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hard later. So the hard now is doing something different, feeling a different way, and being intentional about it. You know, it's like, here's a visual. I get visuals all the time. Imagine you're swimming in a lake and you go halfway out. You're like, this is so hard. This is just so painful. I'm going back. And you do. And then you're like, all right, let me try again. And you go and you swim out in the lake and you go halfway and you keep swimming back. And you're, you've done that.

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so many times, countless times. But now at that halfway point, imagine if you're like, well, hold on, it's the same distance to swim back. But if I keep going, I'm gonna go to this beautiful tropical island waiting on the other side of this. It's the same distance, but it's just unknown. So if we're willing to venture into some unknown territory, it's gonna lead you to a version of you that's gonna blow your mind.

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If people knew what stages four and five felt like, they wouldn't waste a minute on stage three. You know, it's like two best friends. Let's say they have 30 pounds to lose, right? They're both okay, doing fine, dressed fine, and they look okay. But one day, one best friend says, you know, I'm so done with this. I'm losing this weight. And let's say they're two women, and she does. And so now she says to the other friend,

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It's so good over here. I feel so great. I have so much energy. I can wear what I want, not what fits. Like this is, this is amazing. And this one who hasn't done anything is like, no, no, no, but this is okay. And it is, but this is so much better. The one who took the time to make those changes. That's what happens when you move through the stages. Oftentimes we don't know what we don't know. Exactly. We don't know how it's going to feel and you got to do something.

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different in order to achieve something different. Exactly. Exactly. And even though it's unfamiliar, I mean, the only reason why so often we're staying in a position we're staying in is because it's familiar. That's the only thing, good thing, I guess you'd call that good. That's the only good thing about it. That's it. That's the only redeeming quality. It's familiar. That's it. So

36:00

It seems like it would be easier to get over a betrayal if you're not having an ongoing relationship with the person, if you kind of cut that off. Is that true? From my own personal experience, I've been through death of a loved one, I've been through disease, I was in the ICU for 11 days. Nothing was as hard for me as rebuilding an entirely new relationship with my husband. That was by far the hardest thing I've ever done.

36:31

And when you cut those ties, right, like with my family, there was nothing to work with and I moved on. It's a different type of healing. Yes, you're healing, but there's no navigating and negotiating something entirely new with that person. So when you're rebuilding with someone, it's like you're starting over again. So you're taking on.

37:00

besides taking on your ego, you know? And I'm a highly sensitive empath with integrity as my highest value. So betrayal is probably the worst thing that anybody could do to someone like me. So that was the hardest thing I've ever done. Then there are so many people who come in to, before they come into our community, they're like, no, I'm fine. As long as I don't see them, that's not fine. That's not healed. So real healing is seeing.

37:29

that person to those people and feeling compassion. And you get there. It seems like in order to build this new life, you kind of have to do a deep dive on almost everything that you believe, or at least all the limiting beliefs and your core values. And is that the kind of work that helps to get people to hit the reset button and create a new life for themselves?

37:59

you have to move through all of it and not even our own internal things. We are getting so much advice, so many opinions, so much judgment from people on the outside. And everything everyone is saying is coming from their lens. Like let's say you have in-laws and they don't want you to break up or divorce, right? So they're coming at it from their lens.

38:27

or you may have friends that think it's contagious. They don't know how to handle you. Or you have, let's say someone in your life who just minimizes it because they don't understand. So everyone is coming from their own lens. I mean, I remember someone saying to me, Debi, and I thought she was gonna be so helpful. I said, yeah, she goes, I am so glad I'm not you. I was like, all right. So, you know, people are doing the best they can.

38:56

But it's that when it comes to truly transforming after betrayal, it's not necessarily a lonely process. It's a very personal process. You know, when the caterpillar goes into that cocoon, it's not bringing anybody else in there with it. It's doing this deep, deep transformative work. So you have to be really careful who you're surrounding yourself when you're doing this.

39:25

you know, life can be challenging just without having to deal with that, right? So you've got work and you've got kids and you've got other relationships, right? And then you're going to do this in the context of of all of that. So how much time would you say it takes per day of somebody dedicated themselves to this process? And then how many days, weeks, months do you feel like it takes in order, you know, for people to get to a place where they've actually healed from betrayal?

39:55

You know, it's such a great question. It has so much more to do with willingness than time. The more willing someone is, the more quickly they will move through the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough. If they are resistant, they will never move through it. If they're unwilling to let go of their old habits, their old behaviors, their old beliefs, or make any changes, or those three groups that didn't.

40:22

that didn't heal if they're doing any of those things, they're keeping their healing at bay. So there's so much involved in the timeline of it. So more than, like I said, more than time is that willingness. Now, having said that, if someone is very willing, I mean, if they're working in our programs, it's 30 minutes a day, but they're also catching themselves.

40:47

as they say something that the old version of them would say or do something that the old version of them would do. So that's going on throughout the day. But we, we ask 30 minutes a day. Okay. That's definitely doable. And so for people who are listening, who are thinking, you know what, I had a betrayal five, 10, 15, 20 years ago, and I feel like I'm over it. How do, how can they tell if they're actually over it? Yeah.

41:15

You know, you could tell in your health and your work and your relationships, for example, in your health, you could go to the most amazing doctors, coaches, healers, therapists to manage a stress related symptom illness, condition, disease, but if at the root of it is an unhealed betrayal, you know, you're struggling. So like, for example, you heard me say 45% of everyone betrayed has a digestive issue. You and I both know some of the best gut doctors on the planet.

41:43

they can have an incredible protocol, but that healing will only take them so far if underneath, if that betrayal is not healed, right? So it really depends what they're doing. We see it in, so you'll see it in your symptoms of post betrayal syndrome, in your relationships. We see an unhealed betrayal in one of two ways. The first is repeat betrayals, clear sign it's unhealed. The face has changed, but it's the same thing.

42:12

The second way is we put the big wall up. We're like, nope, been there, done that. No one's getting near me again. We think that's coming from a place of strength. No, it's not. That's coming from fear. So that's an unhealed betrayal as well. And then we see, we see it with work too. You know, you, you may, uh, want to be, you want to trust your, your boss, your coworker, a collaborative partner, but the person you trusted the most proved untrustworthy, how do you trust someone you work with, right? Or you may want that razor promotion.

42:43

but your confidence was shattered in the betrayal. So you don't have the confidence to ask, right? That's an unhealed betrayal too. So it's showing up in every area of.

42:54

So for people who are listening, who are wondering if they should be doing a trauma nervous system retraining program or a betrayal program, how do they know? How can you coach them on that? Yeah. Well, we're doing all of that in our program because this is a very specific type of trauma. And we have certified coaches, the best of the best work within the PBT Institute. But they're all...

43:23

proficient in their specific area. So they're all certified in moving someone through the five stages, but based on what stage you're in and what you're going through, you need different things. So early on, you know, you need your nervous system regulated, you know, you need to get some of this trauma out of the tissue. So we have a coach for that later on. You need someone to help you rewire your mindset. You need more self-growth, personal development. We have coaches for that. So it really depends on.

43:50

every single thing having to do with betrayal at specific times need attention. So we have coaches on hand for that. So it sounds like there's ongoing assessment. We have, it's a very detailed milestones and markers kind of checklist where before you, and we have our signature programs, daily classes, all of that, but before you leave a stage, if you don't check off everything on that

44:20

We wanna make sure that when you leave a stage and enter into that next one, you have cleaned up anything that would have you fall back into that stage again, because we don't want you staying stuck. We want you moving through the stages. And it's as a business strategy, we have very high turnover, but high referral rate. Excellent. So you've got a quiz to share with our audience, correct?

44:48

Yes, it's the post betrayal syndrome quiz. We discussed the symptoms of it. And that's to see to what extent you're struggling and take some time with that one and do a deep dive and you'll be amazed that symptoms you may have been shrugging off as, oh, it's just aging. Oh, it's just stress for my job. No, it's not. It's from your betrayal, even if it happened years ago. Yeah. We'll drop that link below. And then where can people find you, learn more about you and this wonderful work you're doing?

45:18

Oh, thank you. Everything is at the PBT as in post betrayal transformation, the PBT Institute.com. Excellent. And we will drop that around this video as well. Any questions before or any last things you want to say before we adjourn today? I so appreciate you taking the time. This has been really valuable. Thank you. I know how painful it is. And I know what's waiting for you when you just move through this day. Just don't stay stuck. Staying stuck now has become a choice and not a good

45:49

So if you've had betrayal, I highly recommend you work with Debi Silber and the work that she's doing, please get help. Thanks so much for joining me here today, Debi. Thank you so much.