Debi Robinson - Episode 31

Yoga, Pranayama, and Fatigue

Today's Podcast


In this episode, Debi Robinson talks about Yoga, Pranayama, and Fatigue


Debi Robinson is a Certified Yoga Therapist and Health Coach FDN-P. Her passion is living and teaching BioHarmonizing to release stress and pressure and find balance in the body and mind. Managing our stress will stop the breakdown that leads to fatigue, pain and suffering. At 51, Debi had a total hip replacement and understands what it feels like to be handicapped, sad and tired. She shares how she found balance and got her life and health back to help others do the same. She teaches weekly on Zoom, and holds live classes on Youtube live. She has ongoing courses and hosts quarterly webinars.


To learn more about Debi Robinson, click here.


For more information about Dr. Evan and his program, click here.


Prefer to watch on Youtube? Click here.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  0:00  
Hello and welcome to the fix your fatigue podcast. Whether you can't get out of bed in the morning, your energy crashes throughout the day, or you're a bio hacker looking to optimize your energy, productivity and focus. This podcast is for you. I am Dr. Evan Hirsch. And I will be your host on your journey to resolving fatigue and optimizing your energy. And we'll be interviewing some of the top leaders in the world on fatigue resolution. Welcome.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  0:33  
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the fixer fatigue podcast. I'm so excited that you're here with me today. Because today we're going to be talking about something that's very, very near and dear to my heart, we're gonna be talking about breathwork or pranayama. And we're going to be doing it with my friend, Debbie. So let's learn a little bit about Debbie and who she is. So she is a certified yoga therapist and health coach. Her passion is living in teaching bio harmonizing, and we're going to learn about what that is to release stress and pressure and find balance in the body in mind. managing our stress will stop the breakdown that leads to fatigue, pain and suffering. At 51. Debbie had a total hip replacement and understands what it feels like to be handicapped, sad and tired. She shares how she found balance and got her life and health back to help others do the same. She teaches weekly on zoom and live classes on YouTube Live. And she has ongoing courses and hosts quarterly webinars. Debbie, thanks so much for being with me today. 


Debi Robinson  1:35  
Thank you and thanks for having me.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  1:38  
So let's talk about bio harmonizing. What does that mean?


Debi Robinson  1:45  
Well, I the word came to me because the word biohacking seems so harsh. And every time I heard that word, something in my gut, just sounded a little bit like piecemeal or attacking or not thinking about the harmony that exists in all of us and the control to actually find balance that leads to harmony. And so I thought I'm not biohacking my health, not biohacking my aging, I'm actually harmonizing, to find that health and wellness. So that's how it came about for me. I love that that's so important. And so part of the reason why I wanted you on today is because back in 2004, I did a yoga teacher training, and lived at Kripalu in western Massachusetts for a month and it changed my life. It was amazing. And one of the things that I learned there, and we know that yoga can be helpful for pretty much everything. And I still have my daily yoga practice, though it's much shorter than it used to be. But one of the things that I love to incorporate into some of my programs that I know is really powerful is pranayama, or breath work. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is? And maybe how it fits into yoga? Yes. So yoga first of all Yoga is when we connect the mind the body and the soul. And pranayama is one of the steps of yoga in in most of the yoga we practice here in the West. It comes from the yoga sutras. And the yoga sutras have an eight step approach to become liberated from suffering. Because the goal of yoga is to liberate from suffering. So in that case, pain, fatigue, whatever. And so one of the steps is pranayama. And what one of my teachers explained to me is that Yoga is about balancing our energy in general, and prana. Yama is to balance the energy of the mind. And it comes right after the physical aspect of the practice, which is the Asana, the postures and the poses.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  3:47  
So yeah, excellent. That's great. And so and, and you really can't do Asana, you can't do the postures without doing some sort of pranayama. Right?


Debi Robinson  3:58  
Well, you know, I don't get caught up in the supposed to, because if we're looking at traditional yoga, most of us don't practice traditionally, we, you have to wake up in the morning, there's a set of Korea's which are cleansing routines you do to cleanse your vessel, because we are wind instruments, right. So for our song and voice to be heard, for us to show up as we are, we need to be cleansed. So you go through these steps of cleansing, and there's the morning practice. breathwork is cleansing, the energetic, you know, in the traditional sense in the terminology that's used some of the Sanskrit terminology, it's to cleanse and clear your energy channels or balance your energy channels. So I don't get caught up in what I'm supposed to do. For me, I practice yoga all day, every day. Because the minute I can come to present moment, bring my awareness to why am I having that thought, why is this happening? Am I keeping the what I live in my package strong. So we have this Opportunity all day long to practice. And breathwork is just one of the most valuable and easily accessible tools for us to practice.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  5:09  
So you're talking about mindfulness, right.


Debi Robinson  5:12  
So mindfulness, I would say is more present moment, let's come here. And when we have one of those steps, we do sensory, sensory withdrawal, right? Because if you're looking, seeing, touching, tasting, smelling, then you're participating. And when you want to go inward, you need to stop participating. So turning down the senses, first would be pratyahara. And then you go into the first stage of meditation, which is concentration, which I would say is mindfulness, bringing yourself present moment and being completely aware of this moment. And then when you start to go deeper, and you start to go to that connection of you, small, you small, self too big. So that's meditation when you go deeper. So that's some of the terminology that Sanskrit and a little explanation of those stages. 


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  6:01  
So then in that definition, mindfulness is the same as meditation. 


Debi Robinson  6:05  


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  6:07  
Please clarify.


Debi Robinson  6:09  
Okay, then the reason why, well, I don't want to I want to watch my P's and Q's, right? So I think that the word mindfulness, mindful, right, mindfulness is mindful, present moment. Meditation is when you're connected to your true energy, your true Divine Self. And it's when you're not mindful. Mindfulness, I think here in the West is a much more acceptable term, to say to you instead of meditation. Well, that's what my experience has been. So I will say that as a more common term now, and I use it often, and even my teachers in India, for years ago had more trouble with that word, mindfulness, I see them adopting it now because it has become more the common thought. And if that's the word that people use, where they stop, and they're calm and their present moment, then yes, mindfulness is meditation. stages, I would say.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  7:06  
Okay, yeah, I learned it a little bit differently. I you know, I see mindfulness as as being in that present moment, like you talked about. And then yes, then then I would say, like the meditation, you but meditation, you're still being mindful, but it seems like because you can be mindful with breath, which is kind of what I was getting at. Were you're paying attention to what's happening, and you're just focusing on the breath, no matter what pranayama that you're doing.


Debi Robinson  7:33  
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I guess it's the word mind meditation. It's like, how do you describe really what that is, because there's a deeper stages of it. And when we're talking about that eight step approach, the last step is to connect to your divine essence. And so at that stage, you're in a different state. And so then there's all of these states. And so yes, mindfulness is beginning state, and how you actually get to the place where you stop participating in life, the way you were, at the end, come to this present moment.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  8:09  
And the reason why I'm kind of bringing mindfulness into this is because there are some people who are turned off by the word meditation, or they're turned off by the word mindfulness. And they don't realize that they can also have a lot of the same benefits by focusing on the breath. Because sometimes, like, for me, I prefer the activity, I prefer an activity of doing something that allows me some greater focus, that allows me to be mindful. But I don't feel like I don't have the same struggles that I do when I'm meditating.


Debi Robinson  8:40  
So it makes sense. Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah, when you can keep the unruly two year old temper tantrum in mind of yours busy, like we all do when we have a two year old temper tantrum, kid, when you can pre occupy or distract the mind, which is what all the other tools of yoga are the physical practice ground from mental energy into the somatic, you've got the tactile aspect of the hand positions that fire up a different part of your brain than where the chronic stress response is. And then you have the breath, which is, I like to say that breath work is like, if you were in a horse, for those that ride horses, they bolt their prey animals. And so when they are triggered or stimulated, they do what's called bolting, they will run because their legs is their defense system. So to me pranayama. And the tools in yoga is like grabbing the reins, sitting heavy in the seat, wrapping your legs around the animal, and then conveyed to him through your body language, that everything is okay. So it's a control. It's a way for us to have control of pranayama breathwork.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  9:52  
That's a great visual exam. I really want to be on a horse right now. Yeah, that would be why 


Debi Robinson  9:59  
I'm here today. Death of them. And it's so crazy. Because I know that I shouldn't convey fear yet I cannot help it. So that's my own thing. I'm good at a lot like managing my stress. But when it comes to horses, it's the power of 1100 pounds of muscle under my body that I just don't know if I could control.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  10:20  
It's pretty intense for sure. Yeah, so let's start off with, I guess, yoga? And can we talk about the benefits of yoga, in the context of mitigating stress and increasing energy?


Debi Robinson  10:35  
Yes, so Yoga is management of energy, yoga, the philosophy of yoga looks at everything as comprised of energy. So we have energy that's either to this not enough that or perfect, you know, just like Goldilocks, hot, cold. And so it's trying to find that harmony and that balance, it's trying to find that bio harmonizing place. It's called sattva. In in, in Sanskrit, and it's that perfect balance place. So you are using, if it's mind, energy, you need to balance, if it's body energy, whatever it is, when something is too much of something, you bring in the opposite, or even the realization in that moment of something being out of balance, and then realizing which tool you need to use. So Yoga is about harmony, about finding balance, and the tools of yoga are to bring the balance to wherever it is you need. So there's there are a lot of tools. And I think that's one of the things I'd love to get across to people and really raise awareness to is that Yoga is lifestyle medicine, because Yoga is about your lifestyle, and how you live every day, how you show up every day. And then there are many tools that help you find that balance in everything you do. And when you are in that place of balance, that's where you have less pain, less inflammation, less fatigue, and less disk ease in your body. And in your mind.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  12:10  


Debi Robinson  12:10  
Did I answer the question?


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  12:11  
Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. So then those those tools that you're referring to with yoga, can you expand on those a little bit I know of, you know, the actual physical stretching with the movement, the Asana, and then I know of the pronoun, but what, what other tools are you talking about?


Debi Robinson  12:28  
So the eight step approach, it's really amazing, actually, it's called the Yoga Sutras, they're called and there's an eight step approach. The first two are yamas, and niyamas. They're the way we interact with others. So they're the way we show up socially. And then they're the what we do with ourselves. So it's self discipline and social discipline. And what's really interesting about that, the more I learn about this part of the practice is that you start to be a witness of how you're showing up. And in, in in terms of the yamas, when you're looking at the way you're interacting with other people. And you start to pay attention to yourself and your self showing up in social situations. And you know, when it comes to fatigue, whenever you can manage that chronic limbic loop of thoughts that are what is part of what's breaking down the internal energy, whenever you can manage that chronic limbic loop stimulation of what you can see conscious thought conscious things, and what you can't see the subconscious parts of you, the parts of you that are from your grandmother, your great grandmother, your great great grandmother, your grandmother from the first century, like that part of you, that's always do they like me? Why are they looking at me like that? Did I say something like that part of you? And so the yamas are, how am I showing up with others? or What am I how am I going to behave with others, then they need that knee helmets or myself, what like, the purity of myself and the cleanliness of myself and discipline to actually practice. To bring this into practice. That's Yama, Yama. Then you come to Asana, which is the physical practice. That's where you keep what you live in. You know, we're wind instruments. Remember, we keep our instrument working. And, you know, one of my main specialties is healthy aging, and I'm in an aging package. And I know what it's like to have it be broken. So we need to keep what we live in functional, mobile lubricated. So that's the physical practice and then you come to prana Yama, your favorite, and prana. Yama is where we start to shift. And we go into that's where we start to take the body in mind, we start to make that connection. So prana Yama, is actually the connector between body and mind. Because we get involved in our mind and we take the reins. That's where we actually come to the prefrontal cortex. We actually get involved in Doing something. And the respiratory system is the only system we actually can have control over. So after pranayama, it's called pratyahara. And that is withdraw of senses. And when you withdraw senses, it's like paying attention to the noisy football game that's in front of you, or turning around and closing your eyes and plugging your ears. So it's still happening, but you're not participating. And then you'll have you won't be reactive to what's taking place, which that reactivity is going to burn through your internal energy. And then you go into the, the concentration aspects, you go into the meditative aspects.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  15:45  
Brilliant. That was a great summary. So that's, Is that considered the Eightfold Path? Yes, it Yes. Okay, great. eightfold path, though, is that not Buddhism? Yeah, yeah, I misspoke.


Debi Robinson  15:57  
No, no, no, it's okay. Because I think that's important that you said that because I even had to question myself, because, you know, the, how is it written? What is it said? I think that when I hear the word eightfold, I think of a Buddhism, and I don't know a lot about that. But yeah, so eight steps of Ashtanga aashe, meaning eight punga, meaning a ladder or steps. And I think what's really important for me to just say a little bit here is that Sanskrit is the liturgical language, it's meant to be experienced, and it's meant to be experienced and understood. So it's very hard to exactly give a definition to the words the words have like 10 or 15 meanings, and it depends which lineage and where you were, that the storyline came through, on how you interpret what the words mean. So that's why Tanga Tanga people call it eight Lim, it could be eight ladders, eight steps.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  16:56  
Brilliant. And then the yoga sutras is that a book that can be read and is that by Patanjali?


Debi Robinson  17:03  

It can be read. And it's better to be interpreted by someone that is actually able to really articulate that to us. I have many interpretations. It's by Patanjali. And it's been interpreted by Benny, I love the teacher that I study with Dr. Ananda Baba Nani. And he's got an amazing interpretation. And it's his father's interpretation as well. And then the whole lineage that he comes from the Peron Peron, which is the lineage of all of the teachers in his lineage.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  17:33  
Brilliant. And so that's great. So I think you just taught more people about yoga than they've ever known in their lives. Okay, well, that's really wonderful, right? It's more than just those movements that you see on TV. It's not pretzel, yoga, right. There's like, so many different aspects to yoga, which is really important. So let's jump into pranayama and breathwork. And why is this so important for health?


Debi Robinson  17:58  
Yeah, so prana, another one of those Sanskrit words kind of hard to really explain what it is. It's your life force energy. So it's, I noticed might be a weird example. Did you see Terminator?


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  18:12  
Back in the day.


Debi Robinson  18:14  
Right. And so when she finally knew she got him is because and I know this is a harsh one. But when he you looked at his face, when the red light that was his eyes was gone, you knew that he was gone, right. So that lifeforce energy that's in us. It's that that gives us our life. And so prana Yama to extend life. That's one interpretation, or to lengthen the exhalation, or the breath. And it's really our connection. It's our connection. I'll tell you what one of the yoga therapy teachers said. And I won't get this whole quote, right. But inhale, and God approaches. And then God is in you, right? And then hold your breath to keep God in you exhale, and you become God. So I know I use the G word. Maybe we could put in the conscious word, but it is that that that? Is that reciprocal? it? Would that be a reciprocal relationship? If you're like, one becoming one with something? I don't know. See, trying to figure out how to articulate it without it sounding too. woowoo it's always my challenge.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  19:30  
And I'm sure we're limited by the English language anyway, right? There's 200 words for love different kinds of loves in Tibetan, right. And we have like one, you know, so that's, that's really helpful. So then I know that there are some and just to clarify for folks, I say pranayam because that's how I was taught like, there's no a and she says pranayama. So it means the same thing, right?


Debi Robinson  19:55  
No north and south, north and south India, you're going to add an A or not One thing about the words you just said about 202 that in some of the beautiful, more older cultures in Italy, they say when you inhale insperity, though, you bring the spirit in on the inhale and you exhale the spirit. So I think that concept of that lifeforce, that spirit, that consciousness that God presents whatever resonates with you, the inhale is to bring it in and to become it and to be it to be alive. And then the exhale is to be one with it. Sorry. So instead, he thought, which is so beautiful to me.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  20:38  
That's great. And I think that there was something that you had said previously about controlling our respirations, where it's kind of like something that we take for granted. But it's something that when we control, it can be really powerful, right?


Debi Robinson  20:54  
Yeah, and what other body system can we control in the moment, and in controlling our respiration, we can control our cardiovascular system, because the heart rate, we can manage the heart rate, we can also signal to the nervous system that the coast is clear. So now you have the nervous system calm. And when you have that, then all the other systems that respond, you know, the endocrine system with the hormones and blah, blah, blah, blah, the the inflammation, the immune system. So it's really your your weak control the respiration system, and then it has a domino positive domino effect on controlling everything else that we need to control, to bring us to the place of harmony, to bring us to the place where we minimize the contributing factors that lead to pain, discomfort and fatigue.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  21:47  
Brilliant. So then let's talk about how we use premium in that way. How can we increase energy, I know, I'm gonna be curious, and I'm gonna want to ask you like, for a couple of different techniques that people can potentially take away. And I'm thinking about things like that might be more relaxing techniques, and, and some of them might be more stimulating. So let's start with something that's more stimulating that people could potentially do in the morning, that would be helpful at increasing their energy in addition to the other benefits that pranayama conveys.


Debi Robinson  22:24  
Okay, so that one that we did often in India when I was in, I've gone there a couple times to study yoga therapy. And in between sessions, when we've come back from a break, we did kapalabhati Have you heard of Kabbalah? bati. And Kabbalah bati literally means skull shining. So if you think about skull shining, it's like, Wow, that sounds energetic, right. And I know that in some of the traditional teachings, they you know, there's certain counterintuitive occasions or any to be partnered with something. So let's not say that this is super traditional. And what we would do is we do kapalabhati. So cupola, bati is you, you switch the control the active or involuntary. So I don't know if you know, like, you'd probably know this, but others might not. The inhale is a muscular voluntary process inside of our body. The exhale happens on its own. It's not muscular, we don't do it. It's a recoiling of the volume pressure of the lungs and of the diaphragm, which is the primary breathing muscle, which is located below the ribs. So it's actually the inhalation a lot of breath work is done with the inhalation with Capella bati, we're actually controlling the exhale. And so with Capella, bata, you take your abdominal area. So let's say the area right below the belly button, and you push back and up, back and up. And you actually do it quick. And then of course, whoever's practicing this, just a little disclaimer, you do you because everyone else has taken, you have to do what's appropriate for you. And if something is directed, do 30 of these for 30 seconds, but it doesn't work for you, then that's not appropriate for you. Right, so you have to take the right dosage of anything that's right for you. So the action is below the belly button, the navel presses back towards the spine and up on towards underneath the rib cage. So and there's a sniffing action so the mouth is closed and the exhale takes place through the nostrils. And you have to really prepare yourself. So when I'm teaching this, I'll have people clear their nostrils because traditionally, remember, there would have been a set of cleansing practices that took place before we did our couple avati. We would have done neti pot or something to cleanse our nasal pathways. We wouldn't have mucus buildup or anything. It wouldn't be midday or it would have been when we were cleansed. So Capella Bochy is lower abdominal area, push back and up. And it's like this, it's like. So you do an active exhale, pushing back in and up, and a passive inhale. So switching the natural rhythm of the breath. So when we did this, we would do and they're really into numbers. And we would do 108, when we came back from a break, and we would do 3636 and 36, we would also do different hand positions. And there is a visual part of this podcast, right, and I will try to explain a little bit for those that aren't watching. So the first hand position would be hands are clasped, and you place your hands straight in front of you, palms are facing away from you. So this would be your first hand position and you do 36, we're not going to do all of them here, then you would raise your hands to about maybe nose hype, and do your or maybe a little higher eye height. And then the last one would be overhead. And what that does, the different hand positions actually gives more space in the lungs, when you raise your arms overhead, the position of the upper arm bones takes the shoulder blades onto the back of the body, when the shoulder blades are on the back of the body, they become very supportive of a chest cavity. And they actually allow for more opening and for more oxygenation in the upper lobes of the lungs. And so the hand positions help to oxygenate the lungs deeper. And if you do that, you're going to actually be involved. And when you're so involved in all of what you're doing, you are not in the place of burning through your internal gas and your internal energy. You're not in the limbic loop, you're not in that chronic catabolic breakdown in the body, you are present moment firing up parts of your brain in a different center that doesn't use the internal energy and actually has the opposite. It's be putting gas back in the car versus taking the gas out of the car. Right? catabolic versus anabolic breakdown versus building. So that would be the cupola bati, I would recommend could be the that for getting your energy up. And I do that now ever since I learned that in India and like oh my gosh, I'm a little fatigued here. And I'll be (sounds) and you know, the younger crowd, the more I don't know, I don't want to say the more healthy but just depending on what state you're in, you can do it quickly. But if you're older, if you have issues with dizziness, and if you've got something going on, yours might be and just as long as you're being really active in the belly area.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  27:53  
Perfect. That was that was brilliant. I'm a big fan of capalaba TVs to do alternate nostril as well. This is great. Yeah, so those of you at home, just go start low and go slow. You know, I definitely recommend these, that you that you try this, I think it can be very beneficial. But start low and go slow. And if you don't feel good, then take a break. So let's talk about something that's relaxing. That maybe, you know, one of the things that I've spoken to people about is if you're waking up in the middle of the night, and you're having a hard time falling back to sleep, maybe some nutty shortener, maybe that maybe you can guide us through that or something else that you think would be especially helpful either to help people fall asleep, or to help them relax.


Debi Robinson  28:42  
Yes. So if we have time for naughty shouting, I'll do that because I think of an audio show not he showed not as balancing our energy. And I'm going to say for waking up in the middle of the night, I want you to ground your mental energy, I want you to bring your mental energy down. because quite often when we wake up in the middle of the night, we start with the thoughts, right, and when the thoughts happen, that's like the horses are at the gate in the race. And that's opening the gate and they're off and when they're off, the body is waking up. And so to ground the mental energy in the middle of the night, I'd like to say that grounding your mental energy into your body into the somatic is going from the place of thinking to feeling and the brain is incapable of being in the centers where it thinks and then centers where it feels. So when you can come into a place of feeling. You're taking the elevator from the brain down into the body. And so what I would recommend what I do for myself, there's two things. Generally I either bring my awareness to my physical body on the bed, I feel the heaviness of my limbs, the backs of my heels, the backs of my legs, my tushy my back, my arms. So I really like increase that somatic awareness and I'm in that center of my brain, that's going to help me go back to sleep. And then if I'm really struggling, I'll actually bring my hands in. Because if you look in the brain, there's a part of our brain that has so much neurological dedication to our hands to our fingers. And this is why a lot of the hand stuff that we do in yoga, they're called mood hras. And a lot, a lot of the mudras help us fire up that part of the brain. So if you take your hands on your lower ribs, and you know your lower ribs are higher in the front, and then they dip down. So place the entire palm, keep your thumbs right next to your pointer fingers that don't spread your fingers, keep your fingers together, and then place the fingers, the hands, palms up against your lower ribs, and allow your elbows to relax. Okay, and, and so here I want you need to close your mouth. In yoga, we breathe through the nose. And there's a couple of reasons for that. If you'd like to know I'll give you a couple of reasons later. But let's do this for now, you could let your middle finger touch here, your fingers touch. What I'd like you to do is it's better if you close your eyes because the eyes stimulate the optic nerves damage stimulates the brain with about 80% of its input. So the minute we close our eyes, we actually take away that stimulation. So close our eyes, close your eyes. Close your eyes and bring your awareness. Breathe to your palms. So feel your palms moving, breathing down to the palms, feeling the palms move as your lower ribs, press into your palms. mouth is closed, you're breathing in and out through your nose. And then keep the eyes closed. Slide your hands down the ribcage, you're still on the lower ribs to the side of your body. palms are on the side of the body. Take a couple of breaths, they're really directing and guiding the breath to the palms. Try to feel the body moving into that left palm, the fingers, the thumb. And the same thing on the other side. Feel that expansion and contraction of your body when you breathe. Take one more breath like this. Keep your eyes closed. Bring your hands together, rub your hands together really strong. So rub rub rub so you feel heat generating in your hands. Feel that heat be in your palms right now. And then bring your hands to cover your eyes.


Debi Robinson  32:46  
And then go ahead and gently blink your eyes open and put your hands down. And then just go to the place just feel right now even I don't even know how many minutes. That was it wasn't a very long process. I know for me guiding because I actually directed myself to the place that I'm guiding you, I can feel the column that's come over me. And so I don't know if you're experiencing that. But at night, I do that often. And if you can't get around to the sides, because you're new you're on your bed here or lower on the belly, and breathing to your palms so that you're really a part of that and it works every time. And if I start to think I'm going to if something's good to notice them, and they'll come right back here, right back here, of course my body feel it. So that's, and that could be done in bed at night because that's the example you gave me. But I also do that. Well I did that before our podcast, I did that to ground my mental energy so that I would show up in a calm, you know, I would be I will be able to go into my brain to the parts, places where I know things as opposed to being in the stress zone, where you can always recall it, you know. That was the other is a name. So this is the bogra prana Yama when you do lower lobular breathing, the intention is to breathe down to the lower lungs. And actually, there's more parasympathetic nervous system, receptors there and even oxygen exchange, the alveoli, there's more in this region of the lungs. So really, when you can get the diaphragm to be active and feel it with your hands, you're very connected. So that can be very, very calming wherever you are.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  34:34  
I can definitely see that and you bring up a very good point. You know a lot of what we do in our program, a lot of fatigue resolution has to do with getting you back into your parasympathetic. And this is just another way another amazing tool that you have that's free at your disposal. set alarms on your phone, if you're not going to think of them right. That is going to help get you out of that sympathetic fighter flight Free State and into that parasympathetic. And oftentimes people will say, we'll take some deep breaths. Well, what are you doing when you're doing that, right? You're putting yourself into your parasympathetic. And this is enabling you this is building it in, in a different way, in a tradition, that's, I want to say is oldest time, but it's probably not that old, but it's pretty darn old.


Debi Robinson  35:22  
Yeah, you know, Evan, really, you know what this is, it gives you control. And when you're in pain, and when you're tired, and when you're suffering, and you're struggling, when you're in bed at night, when you can't sleep, you need to have control over every aspect of yourself, how happy you are, how healthy you are, how important it is to sleep, and you need to and at that moment, you know, you need to so really, to me, pranayama teaches us and the more you practice it, it's your control. It's what empowers you to know that self healing is in your hands. And that's really important is the taking care of ourselves and self healing. And then that inner healing quality that exists in every one of us. It's beyond tremendous. I don't know what the word is for, you know, supercalifragilistic, expialidocious, tremendous. Whatever it is, it's like that human capability, regardless of where you are in your journey of pain, of suffering, of disease, anything. There's that healing potential to get out of that. And pranayama is one of the major tools to give you control.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  36:37  
Mm hmm. I love it. You know, one of my favorite words in Hindi, means means that which is boyhood. Right, but the cha very good or But no, you put it in front of any word, and it means a whole bunch hits the supercalifragilistic word. Yeah. So Debbie, this has been really amazing. This is exactly what I was hoping that we would be able to convey to our audience. So for those of you out there who are interested in going deeper into this work, Debbie, where can they learn more about you and potentially work with you?


Debi Robinson  37:13  
So I have a website. My name is Debbie Robinson. That's my website. I spell Debbie de Eb I Robinson. So that's my www dot, Debby Robinson, and I have workshops, and I work privately with people. I teach live classes weekly. I teach courses quarterly. And I guest I'm guessing on a lot of podcasts, and I'm in the process of creating my own. So I'm getting out there, and I'm out there.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  37:42  
Excellent. And we'll put all those links in the show notes for everybody. Debbie, thanks so much for joining me today.


Debi Robinson  37:50  
Yes, thank you for having me.


Evan H. Hirsch, MD  37:56  
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